Everyone judges no doubt, but not everyone lays out their judgment like the other person should feel horrible for not being as virtuous as they are.  If one of my friends gave me a hard time about it I might care more, but from a complete stranger? Are you kidding me?

Sqrl, when art of angels creates a thread about being dishonest and being proud of it, what are we supposed to do? Take the path of cheering on an individual for being dishonest? Contribute our own stories about being dishonest? Or explain the value of honesty and hope that maybe somebody else reading the thread will consider being honest if in a similar situation?

I never called you a horrible person. If you read my post carefully, you'll see that I extolled the virtues of being honest. Perhaps I was harsh saying you have much to learn in life. But that is a statement I hold true for just about everybody, myself included.

I don't think you are a horrible person. Everybody makes mistakes. Some people learn from them.

You think the Government, schools, business, personal relations, medical care (especially medical care - they over charge out more than anybody else) is being honest with your tax money, with their prices, with their messages, etc.?

If you do, you have a lot to learn in life.  It's one thing to try and be good (which I commend you for), but it's another thing to pretend everything is all rosy and be naive.

For the comment about the clerk getting screwed, maybe he shouldn't be handling money in the first place if he can't do it right and this is karma's way of getting him out of that job (which sucks anyway).

 You missed my point, I didn't say you called me a horrible person, I am saying that no matter how good your intentions may be nobody wants to hear a lecture from a stranger.

So yes, when you see this thread you shake your head and move on, if it makes you feel better you can think "gee I am better than these people".   But if you think that then you probably aren't.  I just don't see what you were trying to accomplish, were you really hoping to teach us a lesson?  That seems to be the case since your last post implies you wanted to "explain the value of honesty".  But to teach someone a lesson you have to think you know the subject better than them so you automatically are telling the person "I am better than you".  This is why advice like this is not to be given by strangers but from people they know and respect. 

But really have you explained the value of honesty?  Because I haven't heard what would have been so great about giving the money back.  Your way I put up with an insufferable idiot to attempt to explain how stupid he is and probably completely embarass him.  My way I walked out with my money +$20 and a PS2.  I see my way as simpler for everyone .  But feel free to explain the value I am not seeing.  

My point here is that honesty has no "value" it has merit, but not value.  And how honest a person is determines how much stupidity they will endure to stay honest.  In this case I attempt to wade through it all but in the end his incompetence won out over my honesty.

Your last line is just insultingly presumptuous, you assume I think of what I did as a mistake.  I honestly do not however.  I weighed the situation and decided that I had made an attempt to be honest with the guy but in light of his ignoring me, ignoring my attempts to correct him,  and a generally rude attitude, I wasn't going to waste my time dealing with this person any more.  If you would of then I'm happy for you. But I just don't care.

Aside from all of that, this is an internet forum for discussing video games, I'm not here to find jesus and get in touch with my inner angel.  I am here to discuss sales figures and BS about blowing people up in video games (just one example).

Seriously just let this go, you are not going to convince me of anything in this thread.  You have lowered my opinion of you far beyond the point where I would consider anything you say.  Its not that I disagree with your message or even dislike you, it's the force that you attempt to deliver your message and the venue you choose to do so. 

A good analogy here is a guy walking down the street and somebody trying to convert him to a different religion.  You don't really hate the guy, you just wish he would shut up and mind his own business.  Thats about as nice as I can put it.  And if I insulted you then I'm sorry but you are pushing the borders of the crap I am willing to take from you.  So please just drop it.

first off, sophomoric statement about the gov't.  i'm not saying i myself am intimately acquainted with the system, but it looks like you may have much more to learn than he does.

i do not have issue with the consequences of the action of the game store clerk, however.  if he's incompetent, he should get fired.

if ArtofAngels want to be a nice guy, help somebody save his job, then he should go back to the store.  but he is under no obligation to do so.  it's clear that he values $300 over a lot of things, and while i'm annoyed by that attitude, i understand he might be at the stage of life where $300 may seem like a lot.  however, i believe $300 on games should NEVER be that important.

karma?  there's no such thing as karma.  arguments based on karmas are ridiculous, almost superstitious.  i believe you can track everything--determinism, in a sense.  karma is a broad term that describes the good things that could, on average, come out of certain actions.  using it in a specific case is not logical.

and given the society is built on certain networks of trust, chances are, actions that breach trust will be repaid.  obviously, if you do it once, by mere probability you might "get away" with it.  but if you let this "OMG I got $300 worth of games!  I'm so lucky!" attitude sink in your head, and start acting repeatedly along similar logic, then, obviously, by probability eventually things will catch up to you. 

oh yeah, the last part wasn't directly at you, VAMP.  just the first line.

I see that makes you feel better about what you did. It looks like you tried really hard to return the money. You rang the bell. Do you seriously think only religious people care about honesty? I stated my opinion. That's what people do on these forums. No lecture. I value honesty.

 Who said anything about religious people only caring about honesty? I used an analogy.

What I did and didn't do in the situation hasn't changed since I did it.  You made an assumption and felt it necessary to make these statements without the facts, if you need to backpeddle now thats not my fault.  You should have asked.

And yes you were trying to lecture, you even admitted as much. 

"Or explain the value of honesty and hope that maybe somebody else reading the thread will consider being honest if in a similar situation?"

Your intentions are spelled out here pretty clearly, I would say its a bit dishonest to change your mind now.  

And if thats not what you were saying the other 2 options you left yourself are these...

"Take the path of cheering on an individual for being dishonest?"

"Contribute our own stories about being dishonest?  "

Yes, it was a lecture. I admit I was wrong in saying "no lecture." Can you forgive an imperfect person?

And thats an example for how you correct a dishonest deed. You admit what you did--fess up to it Thanks for helping me illustrate my point.

Yes, I know how hard it is to say "You've already given me my change" and leave the excess behind. I also know how hard it is to detect sarcasm.