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Forums - General - Russia: Waterboarding is for sissies

Rath on 28 April 2009
im_sneaky said:
Georgia was the aggressor in south ossetia, Russia just responded by protecting its protectorate.

 

I'm a su[pporter of South Ossetian independence but Russia way over-reacted in that war.

Sure defend South Ossetias autonomy from Georgia militarily, but they actually invaded Georgia proper. Thats just going way too far.

 

Also why commit a lesser evil when you have the option to commit no evil at all?

Its kind of like saying, well I guess I can murder a Jew because its nothing compared to the 6 million that Hitler killed.



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Rpruett on 28 April 2009
akuma587 said:

And Americans wonder why people hate America.

 

No, we just wonder why Americans hate America?



Tyrannical on 29 April 2009

The Russians got useful information out of their prisoners, and that information probably saved a lot of Russian lives.

Makes things a bit more morally ambiguous I think.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

vlad321 on 29 April 2009
Tyrannical said:

The Russians got useful information out of their prisoners, and that information probably saved a lot of Russian lives.

Makes things a bit more morally ambiguous I think.

 

Didn't you just mention that they had a tape of them raping a 13 year old girl? I'd torture and butcher them even if I knew beyond a doubt that they had no information to give me. Pat on the back to them.

 

Edit: Goddamn my spelling goes to shit late at night.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

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TheRealMafoo on 29 April 2009
Tyrannical said:

The Russians got useful information out of their prisoners, and that information probably saved a lot of Russian lives.

Makes things a bit more morally ambiguous I think.

 

Sorry dude, but there is a line that should not be crossed. What the Russians did definitely crossed that line.

I don't think poring water on someone's face crosses that line however. Others disagree.

I mean if it's torture, why do we do it to our own special ops during training?

 



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Tyrannical on 29 April 2009
TheRealMafoo said:
Tyrannical said:

The Russians got useful information out of their prisoners, and that information probably saved a lot of Russian lives.

Makes things a bit more morally ambiguous I think.

 

Sorry dude, but there is a line that should not be crossed. What the Russians did definitely crossed that line.

I don't think poring water on someone's face crosses that line however. Others disagree.

I mean if it's torture, why do we do it to our own special ops during training?

 

So, you would comdemn innocent people to death by not extracting vital information if given the chance? Getting intel on a suicide bomber could save dozens of lives.

“You have to be a certain kind of person to do this job - very strong,” Vladimir said. “Those who carried it out always volunteered. It would not be right to order one of your men to torture someone. It can be morally and psychologically very tough.”



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

wfz on 29 April 2009
Tyrannical said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Tyrannical said:

The Russians got useful information out of their prisoners, and that information probably saved a lot of Russian lives.

Makes things a bit more morally ambiguous I think.

 

Sorry dude, but there is a line that should not be crossed. What the Russians did definitely crossed that line.

I don't think poring water on someone's face crosses that line however. Others disagree.

I mean if it's torture, why do we do it to our own special ops during training?

 

So, you would comdemn innocent people to death by not extracting vital information if given the chance? Getting intel on a suicide bomber could save dozens of lives.

“You have to be a certain kind of person to do this job - very strong,” Vladimir said. “Those who carried it out always volunteered. It would not be right to order one of your men to torture someone. It can be morally and psychologically very tough.”

 

There must have been a less radical way of extracting information from a 13 year old girl than raping her..... You think she could have been a suicide bomber?

 

I'm going to say that I think a lot of responses in this thread are poorly grasping straws and misinformation, but I can't help but think there's an more ethical way to get information from a 13 year old girl than raping her. What did she do, anyways? I'm curious, I didn't read through the post that explained it.



TheRealMafoo on 29 April 2009
Tyrannical said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Tyrannical said:

The Russians got useful information out of their prisoners, and that information probably saved a lot of Russian lives.

Makes things a bit more morally ambiguous I think.

 

Sorry dude, but there is a line that should not be crossed. What the Russians did definitely crossed that line.

I don't think poring water on someone's face crosses that line however. Others disagree.

I mean if it's torture, why do we do it to our own special ops during training?

 

So, you would comdemn innocent people to death by not extracting vital information if given the chance? Getting intel on a suicide bomber could save dozens of lives.

“You have to be a certain kind of person to do this job - very strong,” Vladimir said. “Those who carried it out always volunteered. It would not be right to order one of your men to torture someone. It can be morally and psychologically very tough.”

 

Depends. If I had Ben Laden in front of me, and he knew if an imminent attack, I would have no problems treating him as he would expect to be treated. 

Everything needs context.

I just find in hard to see the context in raping kids, or killing solders wives. There comes a point where you are no better then them due to your actions.

Where I differ from someone like Akuma, is where that line is. Sounds like you don't have a line.



ksv on 29 April 2009
Tyrannical said:

 I thought it would be worth mentioning what could drive the Russian to act like that.

 Andrei (Russian) recalled that his men had detained a suspect (Chechen) who had several videos of militants torturing Russian hostages. One showed him laughing as his comrades raped a 12-year-old girl and then shot off three of her fingers.

I also wanted to point out how the newspaper called the Chechen prisoner a "suspect" while a video showed him laughing about the rape.

“We all went berserk after watching this,” said Andrei, who had begun to beat the suspect. “He fell to the ground. I ordered him to get up but he couldn’t because of his handcuffs. I ordered the cuffs off but something was wrong with the lock. I became angrier and ordered one of my sergeants to get them off no matter what.

“So he took an axe and chopped his arms off. The prisoner screamed in agony. Clearly it would have been impossible to interrogate him further so I shot him in the head.”

I have to admit I did laugh a bit in a sadistic manor at that part.

 

You're sick. By the way, if you don't think waterboarding is torture, you should try drowning some time. It's pretty high at the most traumatic thing possible to experience list.

 



Tyrannical on 29 April 2009
wfz said:

 

There must have been a less radical way of extracting information from a 13 year old girl than raping her..... You think she could have been a suicide bomber?

 

I'm going to say that I think a lot of responses in this thread are poorly grasping straws and misinformation, but I can't help but think there's an more ethical way to get information from a 13 year old girl than raping her. What did she do, anyways? I'm curious, I didn't read through the post that explained it.

 

 You must not have read it right.

The Chechen rebels videotaped themselves torturing and raping a 12 year old Russian girl for kicks.

 



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire