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Forums - Sony - Sony: Our first-party dev is as big as Microsoft and Nintendo's combined

Euphoria14 on 07 April 2009
mai said:

BMaker11 said:

Keep clinging to your Mario games while Sony's devs continue to push out new IPs......

New IP != new ideas, pls gimme some examples of new ideas in Sony games on PS3 besides LBP. As I've already said once you could swap names in Resistance and Killzone and it won't make any difference, but you couldn't do that with SMG and SPM, 'cos those are very different games, the last one is even pretty different from previous Paper Mario games like it or not.

Well, sounds a little bit fanboyish =) but that's how I feel.

 

 

Never played Eye of Judgment, Pain, Flower, Killzone 2 (FPS cover system?), Resistance 2 (Where did you find another console shooter with 8-player online co-op with seperate story along with 60 man multiplayer?).

I am sure I can find plenty more, but acting like LBP was the only one is far from the truth.

 

 



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BxN on 07 April 2009
Samus Aran said:

They just insulted themself....
Their first party dev is a lot bigger then Nintendo, but still Nintendo kicks their asses in the gaming department. Nintendo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sony IN making games. If a Nintendo game sells less then 3M it's a failure.... Unless it's a remake or something. There are a lot of great Ninty games in the work right now like a new zelda,sports resorts,sin&punishment 2, pikmin3, punch out, excite bots, new mario(there's always a new Mario...),etc.. Retro studios is also working on something big.

 

Ps: Sony is the most arrogant company I've seen in ages... I would say Microsoft as well, but I like Bill gates. It's not like he's evil.

 

Sure, you can keep all those lackluster games, and Mario/Metroid/Zelda, I'll just go and play my Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted, Killzone, God of War, ICO,  MLB the show, Jak and Daxter, Resistance, Gran Turismo, LittleBigPlanet, Patapon, LocoRoco, Sly Cooper, Infamous, Heavy Rain and all those great games developped by Sony.

 

I didn't know that sales actually meant quality, that's a new one for me.



Grooski on 07 April 2009
Darc Requiem said:
Cthulhu said:
NJ5 said:
Cthulhu said:
Darc Requiem said:

Sony needs to shut up and get their house in order. I've never seen a last place company to talk so much smack. They need to buckle down, figure out to get the PS3 price down, and pray that can somehow catch Microsoft for second place. Never have a seen so many different people from one company open their mouth and insert their foot so often. The phrases "talk is cheap" and "actions speak louder than words" are words Sony should consider.

 

I judge a company from the games they offer. 1rt 2nd or 3rd places doesnt matter. All i want is games.

Btw Sony's house is in order

What do you mean by "Sony's house in order"?

Are you completely ignoring the fact that their gaming division hasn't been consistently profitable since before the PS3 launched, and that the whole of Sony is now having losses too?

Sony has already said they'll fundamentally restructure the gaming business for profitability. This means they don't think the house is in order, and it may also mean that this quote from Mr. Koller won't be valid for long.

 

The games keep coming, thats all i care

 

That's the thing. If they keep mismanaging their game platforms the games won't keep coming. They botched the PS3. They ignored the PSP for 18 months inspite of it's solid sales. Sony's business decisions as for late have been one cluster fuck after another. They need to get their house in order. I'm not a fan of Sony but I don't want them to go belly up because they can't get out of their own way.

I want Sony sharp and competitive so both Nintendo and MS have to stay on their toes. They haven't been for this entire generation. They need stop worrying about Microsoft's and Nintendo's platforms and worry about their own. Their constant shift in focus shows a real lack of overall direction. Nintendo and MS have clear business plans. Sony keeps shifting in the wind and it's to their detriment.

 

Hmm, maybe. But then again:

 

(i) 22 million served and counting in just over 2.5 years...

(ii) NO loss of 3rd party support, in fact, more exclusive X360 titles are now making its way to the PS3, indicating an INCREASE in support. Vast majority of titles now releasing day and date with their counterparts.

(iii) PS3 outselling the X360 at the same cycle point.

(iv) Anticipated 33 million console sales by end Dec 09

(vi) Profitability of console in Q2/Q3 likely

(vii) Increased revenues from game sales, launch of video store in PAL, launch of music download service in all territories exponentially increasing the operating revenues of Sony Game. Home to expand with increased publisher support. Don't like Home? Its a revenue cash cow.... who cares if you don't. Strengthen this with increased PS3 and PSP software sales and you have an excellent mix at profits from Q3 2009 onward.

(viii) As for coming last, what does coming second and outselling its competitor get Microsoft??? Nothing...because the PS3 install base is now too high. You can't moneyhat exclusives anymore when you have to cover expected sales for this fanbase. As this fanbase rises, so does expected return on development costs for EVERY third party release making development now worthwhile.

Its now past the point of mattering who comes second this gen because it is nothing but fanboy service. More and more the focus will return to profitability.

Koller is dead right. Having a massive devlopment team is a huge advantage as we move further on this gen.

With the same continued AAA third-party releases, a vastly overwhelming majority of first party exclusives, a massive army of development focussed on new IP investment for the future and a strengthening of revenues I'd say that the PS3 is not doing too shabby at the moment.

Yes you'll notice I ignored the Wii, which is probably what 30 million Wii owners do regularly...

 



loy310 on 07 April 2009
mai said:

BMaker11 said:

Keep clinging to your Mario games while Sony's devs continue to push out new IPs......

New IP != new ideas, pls gimme some examples of new ideas in Sony games on PS3 besides LBP. As I've already said once you could swap names in Resistance and Killzone and it won't make any difference, but you couldn't do that with SMG and SPM, 'cos those are very different games, the last one is even pretty different from previous Paper Mario games like it or not.

Well, sounds a little bit fanboyish =) but that's how I feel.

 

 The point is that you are still playing Mario and Zelda, the same old same old, cmon whats next from nintendo? I bet it's another Mario game staring mario.. lol!! 



shams on 07 April 2009

Funnily enough, total sales is more important than number of titles in development. In fact, all Sony are saying is they are spending more money on software dev than both MS or Ninty - which wouldn't shock me.

They seem to have forgotten that *profit* is what matters - not revenue, i.e.:

profit = revenue - costs

Nintendo:
profit = heaps - little = heaps

Sony:
profit = little - heaps = -heaps

...which pretty much sums up their respective annual financial statements.

Has WiiFit sold more units than all the 1st-party Sony PS3 titles put together? What about WiiFit+MK?



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HappySqurriel on 07 April 2009

Another consideration is whether "Size" is necessarily a good thing ...

There have been several Sony published games that were both critical and financial failures, you have to wonder if Sony had consolidated resources between a few of these games (and had fewer, higher talent studios with larger budgets and timelines) if they would have ended up with better games.

As an example of resources I would reallocate within Sony ... There is really no value in Sony producing its own Sports games being that they are far lower quality than most of the other sports games on the market and they don't seem to sell well enough to cover the costs associated with them. If Sony joined these teams (focusing on increasing the overall talent) and focused on genres where there was less competition they would probably be more successful as a company and produce more games their consumers cared about.



Euphoria14 on 07 April 2009
BxN said:
Samus Aran said:

They just insulted themself....
Their first party dev is a lot bigger then Nintendo, but still Nintendo kicks their asses in the gaming department. Nintendo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sony IN making games. If a Nintendo game sells less then 3M it's a failure.... Unless it's a remake or something. There are a lot of great Ninty games in the work right now like a new zelda,sports resorts,sin&punishment 2, pikmin3, punch out, excite bots, new mario(there's always a new Mario...),etc.. Retro studios is also working on something big.

 

Ps: Sony is the most arrogant company I've seen in ages... I would say Microsoft as well, but I like Bill gates. It's not like he's evil.

 

Sure, you can keep all those lackluster games, and Mario/Metroid/Zelda, I'll just go and play my Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted, Killzone, God of War, ICO,  MLB the show, Jak and Daxter, Resistance, Gran Turismo, LittleBigPlanet, Patapon, LocoRoco, Sly Cooper, Infamous, Heavy Rain, Buzz, Shadow of the Colossus, Wipeout, Formula 1, Flower, PixelJunk and all those great games developped by Sony.

 

I didn't know that sales actually meant quality, that's a new one for me.

I just decided to add a couple more.

 



iPhone = Great gaming device. Don't agree? Who cares, because you're wrong.

Currently playing:

Final Fantasy VI (iOS), Final Fantasy: Record Keeper (iOS) & Dragon Quest V (iOS)     

    

Got a retro room? Post it here!

wholikeswood on 07 April 2009
Squilliam said:
Since this is coming from the horses mouth I'll assume it is true.

1. Are these studios a drain or are they profiting. I'll assume the former unless corrected with strong evidence because if they have that many employees its got to be a massive drain on their resources if every single HD publisher is losing money pretty much even with some impressive blockbuster releases I have to assume that Sony is as well at this point.

2. Is their pursuit of development excellence causing them to hire huge quantities of staff at the expense of profits. Guerilla games had in excess of 200 staff at points in Killzone 2 development and I heard that Santa Monica had two animators for every programmer and thats a lot of staff and expensive MOCAP.

1. As I recall MakingMusic setting out a while ago, SCEWWS is the most profitable part of Sony's gaming division. Think it's only San Diego that historically hasn't set the charts alight (that said, MLB 09 The Show is sitting pretty at 90 on Metacritic).

2. Please don't do a starcraft. You're coming ambiguously close to suggesting that GG was super-staffed during KZ2 development. As MakingMusic (wow, he's been useful!) has explained countless times, the vast majority of development was done by the original, moderately-staffed group before rising for the last stretch.

Edit: MakingMusic, get yo' ass in here and explain this better.



NJ5 on 07 April 2009
wholikeswood said:
Squilliam said:
Since this is coming from the horses mouth I'll assume it is true.

1. Are these studios a drain or are they profiting. I'll assume the former unless corrected with strong evidence because if they have that many employees its got to be a massive drain on their resources if every single HD publisher is losing money pretty much even with some impressive blockbuster releases I have to assume that Sony is as well at this point.

2. Is their pursuit of development excellence causing them to hire huge quantities of staff at the expense of profits. Guerilla games had in excess of 200 staff at points in Killzone 2 development and I heard that Santa Monica had two animators for every programmer and thats a lot of staff and expensive MOCAP.

1. As I recall MakingMusic setting out a while ago, SCEWWS is the most profitable part of Sony's gaming division. Think it's only San Diego that historically hasn't set the charts alight (that said, MLB 09 The Show is sitting pretty at 90 on Metacritic).

2. Please don't do a starcraft. You're coming ambiguously close to suggesting that GG was super-staffed during KZ2 development. As MakingMusic (wow, he's been useful!) has explained countless times, the vast majority of development was done by the original, moderately-staffed group before rising for the last stretch.

Edit: MakingMusic, get yo' ass in here and explain this better.

Being the most profitable part of Sony's gaming division isn't a great feat if you divide it in two (hardware and software). After all the hardware is a source of terrible losses.

I'm sure that Sony can get more profits out of its studios and IPs by reshuffling, downsizing and merging studios, and I would be surprised if they didn't do that (especially given their recent declarations).

 



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Signalstar on 07 April 2009
HappySqurriel said:

Another consideration is whether "Size" is necessarily a good thing ...

There have been several Sony published games that were both critical and financial failures, you have to wonder if Sony had consolidated resources between a few of these games (and had fewer, higher talent studios with larger budgets and timelines) if they would have ended up with better games.

As an example of resources I would reallocate within Sony ... There is really no value in Sony producing its own Sports games being that they are far lower quality than most of the other sports games on the market and they don't seem to sell well enough to cover the costs associated with them. If Sony joined these teams (focusing on increasing the overall talent) and focused on genres where there was less competition they would probably be more successful as a company and produce more games their consumers cared about.


Sony's MLB 09 The Show is not only the highest rated baseball game its also the highest rated traditional sports game of this gen. Yes their NBA title sucks hard and they should end it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gWECYYOSo

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