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Forums - Gaming Discussion - NexGen and Innovation

Over the past few days i've been reading the news mainly from gdc and people from the industry saying that it's difficult to make more risks now in nex-gen, mainly for two reasons: the need to spend money on showing the power of HD, and the reluctance on spending that lot of money in new games no one knows if they will succeed. Can Little Big Adventure be a million seller, for example? Viva Piñata failed on that attempt, didn't? Will the publishers start risking more on the Wii in cost-contained productions?



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If you change the second half of that last sentence, I think the chance of me having to lock this later after becoming a flame war would decrease exponentially.



It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. -Mark Twain

2004 Lincoln LSV8 - ~$15,000

K&N Cold Air Intake - $300

Handheld ECU Reprogrammer - $400

The look on a ricer's face when they get their ass beat off the line by a Lincoln - Priceless

Sintinel said: If you change the second half of that last sentence, I think the chance of me having to lock this later after becoming a flame war would decrease exponentially.
done. no need for that.



Publishers might if the console continues to sell at good levels and 3rd party software sells better than on GC. If those two conditions can be met, you can expect many experimental and risky titles on Wii. The 3rd required element, cost of production, has obviously already been addressed.



r2007 said: Over the past few days i've been reading the news mainly from gdc and people from the industry saying that it's difficult to make more risks now in nex-gen, mainly for two reasons: the need to spend money on showing the power of HD, and the reluctance on spending that lot of money in new games no one knows if they will succeed. Can Little Big Adventure be a million seller, for example? Viva Piñata failed on that attempt, didn't? Will the publishers start risking more on the Wii in cost-contained productions?
I cannot really assume why people assume that it cost more to make a game in HD. Little Big planet probably did not break the bank and most likely flow did not either. When I made game content it was easier and took less time to create objects with higher res textures instead of hand painting low res textures to look decent on your objects. I think the PS3 might need to sell a little bit more to ensure some million sellers. Viva was a beautiful game but I did not like the "type" of game that it was. I think that had more to do with Viva's sales than anything else.



Games make me happy! PSN ID: Staticneuron Gamertag: Staticneuron Wii Code: Static Wii - 3055 0871 5802 1723

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Publishers never take risks; they’re large corporations who produce games based on the business case for making the game. Basically, for every game that is made they have someone crunch the numbers and a game is made if projected development cost + (projected development cost x desired profit margin) =* projected revenues. *{or less than} Now, ”Risky” games end up having lower projected revenues and ”Next Generation” games end up having a much higher projected development cost; the result is that it is very difficult to make a business case for a ”Risky Next Generation” game. You will never change this, the only thing that will probably change is what is considered a ”Risky” game.



Rephrasing that, it's not mainly the cost. It's the focus. And the focus is where you spend more money. From what I've seen and read, a game for ps3 and 360 must be stunning otherwise it will have much more difficulties being 'accepted'. If for the Wii one thinks first "How are we going to use the wiimote?", for the other two it's more "Look at that screens". These are shortcomings for games, being prejudged by one part of it, and not the whole.



r2007 said: Over the past few days i've been reading the news mainly from gdc and people from the industry saying that it's difficult to make more risks now in nex-gen, mainly for two reasons: the need to spend money on showing the power of HD, and the reluctance on spending that lot of money in new games no one knows if they will succeed. Can Little Big Adventure be a million seller, for example? Viva Piñata failed on that attempt, didn't? Will the publishers start risking more on the Wii in cost-contained productions? staticneuron said: I cannot really assume why people assume that it cost more to make a game in HD. Little Big planet probably did not break the bank and most likely flow did not either. When I made game content it was easier and took less time to create objects with higher res textures instead of hand painting low res textures to look decent on your objects. I think the PS3 might need to sell a little bit more to ensure some million sellers. Viva was a beautiful game but I did not like the "type" of game that it was. I think that had more to do with Viva's sales than anything else.
High Definition is not what the real issue is, after all you could run Quake 3 Arena in High Definition on a modern PC and that didn’t impact the development cost of the game at all … The real issues are that in order to make more realistic looking surfaces in games you’re required to use a lot of advanced shaders which usually require another texture (with data related to the shader) being applied to a model; as an example, to create normal maps on models it is not uncommon to produce a super high detailed version of the model and map the normals back onto the lower detailed model (essentially, doubling or tripling the amount of time to create one model). At the same time, the more detailed your models become the more detailed people expect the environment to be; this means that you now have to create all sorts of extra game assets in order to populate the environment. Ultimately, this is what people mean when they say that it is 3 to 4 times as expensive to make a HD game on the PS3 or XBox 360 as compared to a SD game on the Wii ...



Sintinel said: If you change the second half of that last sentence, I think the chance of me having to lock this later after becoming a flame war would decrease exponentially. r2007 said: done. no need for that.
Thanks. Good topic. On topic: I honestly have no idea. I think it depends more on the consumer base than the developers. If they want uber HD graphics, that is what will sell, if they want a cute, but decidedly fun and unique, experience such as Vive Pinata or Little Big Planet, that will sell. Personally, I think they both will, but I think it really depends on what console you put it on. I think Gears would have sold like shit on the Wii, and I don't think LBP will sell very well on the PS3, and I think Vive Pinata would have sold over a million copies on the Wii. The console market has split in two directions, and I think the smart developers will realize what types of games work(and sell) better on each console.



It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. -Mark Twain

2004 Lincoln LSV8 - ~$15,000

K&N Cold Air Intake - $300

Handheld ECU Reprogrammer - $400

The look on a ricer's face when they get their ass beat off the line by a Lincoln - Priceless

HappySqurriel said: The real issues are that in order to make more realistic looking surfaces in games you’re required to use a lot of advanced shaders which usually require another texture (with data related to the shader) being applied to a model; as an example, to create normal maps on models it is not uncommon to produce a super high detailed version of the model and map the normals back onto the lower detailed model (essentially, doubling or tripling the amount of time to create one model). At the same time, the more detailed your models become the more detailed people expect the environment to be; this means that you now have to create all sorts of extra game assets in order to populate the environment. Ultimately, this is what people mean when they say that it is 3 to 4 times as expensive to make a HD game on the PS3 or XBox 360 as compared to a SD game on the Wii ...
And normal mapping was used on the Xbox and PC's years ago. Halo 2 and Riddick had normal mapping. Games like gears of war cost epic 10 million. Final fantasy X cost 32 million, FFXII cost 35 and FFVII cost around 45 million. Lost planet 20 million. It is rumored that killzone for the PS3 has a 22 million budget. I do not see any real evidence that proves that this generation or HD is more expensive. It seems that the cost is more related to ambition than the content itself.



Games make me happy! PSN ID: Staticneuron Gamertag: Staticneuron Wii Code: Static Wii - 3055 0871 5802 1723