I know this topic has derailed and is now known as the "MGS Touch warz topic", but I think I'll have to point out that my opinions lie in very much in line with Scottie's reasoning in this post. I'm just wondering if people see just how much alike the reactions to the Wii and the iPhone are. The fact that they are so very much alike leads me to believe that the iPhone will change the market just about as much as the Wii and the DS already have.

If you think about it, the iPhone is the motion controls of the Wii (simplified) + the touch control of the DS + iTunes store. How could it ever fail? How could it NOT change the market, when packed in such sexy wrapping?

@Plaupius: I don't know if it's possible to shift your puchases to your new device in Apples service, but that would partially solve the problem.

There are different market segments in the mobile phones market when looking at why people change their phones. One indeed is the people running after the latest features, one is the people running after the latest design, one segment changes their phones when the old one is becoming dead, and of course combinations of them.
If we look at iPhone in the context of iPod, we are talking about iPod talk. It's pretty natural for iPod users to upgrade their devices for the next incarnation of iPod (which was a great strategy in business sense), which indeed would make sense that segment of customers to stay on board with iPhone. Also, iPhone do offer something objectively better than most phones in the market, which is bigger screen. My coworker bought Nokia 5800 a while ago, and i got to test his phone and the big screen was pretty great in use (especially watching porn from internet).

The thing is, that iPhones competitors offer the same services (Nokia has Ovi as a door to their music store, maps, N-Gage, etc. Sony-Ericsson are working on one their own) and downloading stuff to your phone isn't a new thing, since the aftermarket that delivers content have existed for more than a decade already.

I do believe the iPhone as a dev platform will be profitable for a lot of developers (as the mobile phones as platform have been), but i doubt it will be the medium for handheld games in the future. It would be like saying PC will be the medium for games in the future.

@Killergran: More valid comparision would be PS3 (with the difference that iPhone actually makes profit). You did just yourself made reasoning why PS3 couldn't fail, it offers more features.

The iPhone isn't taking gamers away is fallacious thinking, since there exists a mobile phones games market, that iPhone is taking sales from.

If the customer is satisfied, it doesn't necessarily mean there's nothing to improve. Yeah, App Store would be pretty... stupid if you had to buy a retail copy. However, I'd like having a chance. That said, if/when all consoles become download-only, I might actually reject all consoles. That burn part could make a difference though... Yeah, would probably make me a much more frequent buyer online. I'm just worried about my rights as a customer - the whole affair being easy just isn't enough to make me forget my rights.

It seems you were lucky with you iPhone - still, it's too expensive for what you get and that alone is enough reason to stay away from it (and Apple). Actually the price of Apple's products makes me boycott Apple, especially since there's no advantage in using Apple's products over those of the others. And we seem to agree about your last sentence.

Basically digital distribution means that the customer only has the right to use whatever he has paid for while buying a retail copy is actually owning the product. Of course it depends a lot on the person whether he cares or not, but I'd say it's still worse. Not that I'm always agains digital distribution; nothing wrong if there's no DRM and you can copy it for personal use as much as you like (ought to be pretty much of a hassle with the iPhone even if it was that way, but at least it would be possible), and it's not very bad if it's very cheap (but still slightly worse).

A few things I'm surprised you didn't realize. First DRM. Yes Apple has DRM, but can you backup games from any of your gaming systems with the consent of the maker? There are work arounds for iApps just like there are for Wii, 360, PS3 and just like them they are not supported by the manufacturers. So how is the iPhone different? Console games sadly have never been easy to back-up and Apple is hardly bucking the trend.

You seem to be making the same mistake when you talk about retail. Once again buying something in retail for consoles is just as hard (well actually significantly harder) to backup than iApps. Consoles require hardware mods, the iPhone can run unlicensed software with a simple jailbreak. 

Finally in regards to price. If somebody owns a cell phone and an MP3 player with more than a few gigs of music it really isn't a bad value. I got my iPhone when somebody stole my Sony Ericsson phone and my Creative Zen. It would have cost me more to re-buy than to upgrade. And clearly the iPhone is targeted at people who use both a media player and a cell. So if you fall into the niche where you only want a phone or an mp3 player it might be pricey but for most people that is simply not true. And when you compare it to the price of the competition it is quite competitive- and the availability of a software ecosystem makes it far more valuable than for instance a Sprint Instinct which costs nearly as much and is almost totally inflexible. At a $100 my iPhone was a steal. At $200 it is worth it- but only if somebody wants a phone and an MP3 player- which the target demographic does.

@Averyblund: You got it really cheap, but considering you get a phone in the same class as iPhone and an iPod for less than 200€, when iPhone normally is 2-2,5 times as expensive.

DRM is a problem if you can't transfer your purchases to another device, since you may want to replace your device to another, because of some other functionality.

My opinion about not being able to make a backup or anything else 'real', other than being on my storage device (HDD, memory card, etc.), is the problem with almost every online service. The only real exception I've seen so far is GOG.com, where I've actually bought one game. Yep, I don't blame Apple alone.

Retail? Backup? You missed my point (or I missed yours, or both)? I don't want  to make backup copies of the retail stuff I've bought; they never break anyway (at least when I use them). My whole point was that buying a retail copy ensures that I actually own the product while if I buy a digital copy, I usually have only the right to use that product instead of owning it.

iPhone price competitive? What a joke. The only real thing it has better than a 200€ cell phone is its ease of use; other than that, it actually lacks some (minor) features. Of course there's this touch screen... But I doubt it alone can make up the price. The price which you got your iPhone at was great, I can't argue about that. I'm just telling that its price new is terrible. Don't know what it costs there but here it costs (or at least cost, last I checked) 350€+. And that's low-end, just not to overestimate.

While I understand your point, I don't see things as clear cut as you do. For example, there have been (and still are some) EULAs that similarily only grant you the right to use the software, but not for example resell it. Luckily most EULAs today are more reasonable. Still, I see the difference as being more of a philosophical issue with only a minor impact on the actual use. That doesn't mean that I think the difference is not important, but I'm more of a pragmatist and if things work for the majority of users, I'm happy.

Regarding digital distribution, iPhone Apps and the iTunes store: I'm under the impression that stuff protected by the Fairplay DRM can be authorized to play on up to 5 devices. That would mean that Apps you buy can be transferred to your 4 next iPhones. It's not perfect, but I think that's pretty reasonable. Also, whenever you sync your iPhone a backup is made, and you can store those backups on a DVD if you like. It's not the same as owning a retail copy, though.

Agreed.

Actually the TOS state 5 devices at the same time. If you sell the phone or upgrade you just need to deauthorize it and you are good to go.

No matter the ones preference for retail vs. digital I can't help but be frustrated when people blame a device for the "decline" of a market. The Wii is not killing consoles, the iPhone is not killing mobiles. Other products do exist and will continue to thrive as well. 

Yes, you are correct. So, as long as you have a working backup of your music and app library, and as long as Apple is around and running their iTunes servers, you can authorize and deauthorize devices at your hearts content. So, really, the situation is even better than I wrote.

As to your second point, I agree. Wii is not killing consoles, and if anything is killing consoles it is those consoles themselves. The same could be said about the iPhone and handhelds, so there's really not much point claiming x is killing y.