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Forums - General - If you don't believe in the death penalty, this should change your mind.

akuma587 on 31 March 2009
L.C.E.C. said:

I would rather die then spend every day of the rest of my life getting my ass raped and gang-raped, ect...


So, I would prefer Death-penalty over life in prison...

Another good point.  Arguably the death penalty is more lenient on criminals.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

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Username2324 on 31 March 2009
akuma587 said:
Username2324 said:
Moongoddess256 said:
We're talking to a brick wall guys :

What argument do you really have against the death penalty besides "life is precious".

It's people like you that have made it so expensive, and thats exactly how you like it, to convince other people we should get rid of it solely because of cost.

Otherwise you have no argument. You cannot provide a single reason as to how keeping them locked up but alive adds to society.

 

1) The death penalty does not deter criminals from committing crimes anymore than life in prison does.

2) Depriving someone of life is a power that a government should use sparingly, if at all.

3) The death penalty is not cost efficient in the judicial system. 

4) Thousands of people have been sentenced to death who were innocent.  Human beings are horribly flawed and should not have the power to condemn each other to death.

5) Giving the government too much power is dangerous.

Username, I would love to see you live in a country like China where police can trump up charges just so they can put in the newspaper they have caught a killer when really all they care about is putting the blame on someone.  I would laugh my ass off if they threw you in jail and sentenced you to death simply because it was easier for them to do that than to actually find the killer.  I would come to your execution and savor it while you died painfully and slowly.  I would wake up every day happy with that image in my mind of your death.

 

1. Source please.

2. Define sparingly. I'm not saying every murderer should die, but those who have killed many in cold blood shouldn't get a free ride the rest of their life.

3. Only because it's been made so damn complicated, a restructuring would easily fix that.

4. Source please. Timeline too please.

5. Agreed, but as I have said, it is extremly difficult to sentence someone to death, I am not proposing making it easier as in "you killed him, we kill you", the judicial process should still be carried out and guidelines should be created to determine who fits the bill.

For the China comment, we're not in China, our system is very different from theirs.



Username2324 on 31 March 2009
akuma587 said:
L.C.E.C. said:

I would rather die then spend every day of the rest of my life getting my ass raped and gang-raped, ect...


So, I would prefer Death-penalty over life in prison...

Another good point.  Arguably the death penalty is more lenient on criminals.

 

A bed, a roof, a toilet, a sink, a hot meal, and medical care isn't?

 



tombi123 on 31 March 2009
L.C.E.C. said:

I would rather die then spend every day of the rest of my life getting my ass raped and gang-raped, ect...


So, I would prefer Death-penalty over life in prison... as the guilty...

 

well there's always suicide if you want to choose death over prison... 



MontanaHatchet on 31 March 2009

The death penalty is a terrible idea. While the actions that would lead to the death penalty are horrible, that doesn't really justify death. It's a matter of consistent justice. Back in ancient cultures, people would have their ears or hands cut off for simple robbery. Nowadays, it would be a few days or weeks in jail (it would definitely help if I had more knowledge of crime).

One of the main problems with the death penalty is that it's really backwards. Hangings and torture used to be commonplace, but now torture is looked upon as an incredibly cruel action and hanging is unheard of. As a society, we should be moving towards arrest and restraint rather than murder. Hell, watch the movie Batman Begins if you want to learn a little more.

Life is precious, or at least I think so in my oh-so crazy mind. After all, once you lose it, you aren't getting another one. And you don't realize how precious life is until you're dead (although you don't "realize" anything at all). Take a lesson from the third crusades, when the crusaders didn't have the resources to house their captives and chose to slaughter them instead. Back then, they really had no other option. But in today's society, we have the resources to house people for life, and we shouldn't end a person's life just because it's more convenient to the government and taxpayers.

Just take a look at some of the top countries for executions. The top 6 consist of China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, the U.S., and Iraq (in 2007). With the government it has, it should seem a little strange to anyone for the U.S. to fall into this bracket. Some of the top countries for capital punishment have less money and more oppressive governments, but there's really no excuse in the United States. You say I have no argument against it, but you've presented no good arguments for it because the same recycled cliches and "what if" scenarios that frankly don't interest me.



 

 

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L.C.E.C. on 31 March 2009

^^^ Not if ur gay, lol




akuma587 on 31 March 2009
Username2324 said:

For the China comment, we're not in China, our system is very different from theirs.

Do I need to explain to you why our system is so much different than theirs?  Because we value defendant's rights far more than they do.  If we didn't, we WOULD live in a country that was more like China.

Look at our Constituion.  How many times do you see the Founding Fathers put shortcuts in the Constitution for law enforcement?  How many times do you see the Founding Fathers make it harder to convict people of crimes?

A system without these protections would fundamentally change our way of life.  You say we should "restructure" our appeals process.  Maybe we should just get rid of the Bill of Rights?  Or the ex post facto clause?  And double jeopardy protection?

People take all these rights for granted until the government starts taking them away.  Everyone innocent person who ends up in prison never thought it could happen to them.  They know their government would never do something like that!  I find it laughable that conservative people don't trust the government to do anything, unless of course they are waging war or prosecuting criminals.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Username2324 on 31 March 2009

MontanaHatchet said:
The death penalty is a terrible idea. While the actions that would lead to the death penalty are horrible, that doesn't really justify death. It's a matter of consistent justice. Back in ancient cultures, people would have their ears or hands cut off for simple robbery. Nowadays, it would be a few days or weeks in jail (it would definitely help if I had more knowledge of crime).

You're saying we've created punishments that do not deter crime, and in fact have the inverse effect and can actually create crime. By have such relaxed punishments it's easier for someone to get into criminal activities inevitably climing the ladder and reaching murder.

One of the main problems with the death penalty is that it's really backwards. Hangings and torture used to be commonplace, but now torture is looked upon as an incredibly cruel action and hanging is unheard of. As a society, we should be moving towards arrest and restraint rather than murder. Hell, watch the movie Batman Begins if you want to learn a little more.

Again, how is being easy on criminals advancing society, we're making it easier to be a criminal, we're not preventing crime at all. Last time I checked the death penalty did not consist of torture.

Life is precious, or at least I think so in my oh-so crazy mind. After all, once you lose it, you aren't getting another one. And you don't realize how precious life is until you're dead (although you don't "realize" anything at all). Take a lesson from the third crusades, when the crusaders didn't have the resources to house their captives and chose to slaughter them instead. Back then, they really had no other option. But in today's society, we have the resources to house people for life, and we shouldn't end a person's life just because it's more convenient to the government and taxpayers.

Why should life remain precious for those who did not appreciate life? How is confining them for life and denying them almost every satisfaction of life so different from ending it?

Just take a look at some of the top countries for executions. The top 6 consist of China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, the U.S., and Iraq (in 2007). With the government it has, it should seem a little strange to anyone for the U.S. to fall into this bracket. Some of the top countries for capital punishment have less money and more oppressive governments, but there's really no excuse in the United States. You say I have no argument against it, but you've presented no good arguments for it because the same recycled cliches and "what if" scenarios that frankly don't interest me.

The death penalty isn't carried out so often here, 53 42 (sorry, that was 2006) people were sentenced to death in 2007, out of 300 million, that's not so bad especially considering that 4 of the 5 countries up there are smaller than the US. Way to twist the facts.



akuma587 on 31 March 2009

@ Username:

What would Jesus say about the death penalty? Would Jesus be for or against it?



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

TheRealMafoo on 31 March 2009
akuma587 said:
Username2324 said:

For the China comment, we're not in China, our system is very different from theirs.

Do I need to explain to you why our system is so much different than theirs? Because we value defendant's rights far more than they do. If we didn't, we WOULD live in a country that was more like China.

Look at our Constituion. How many times do you see the Founding Fathers put shortcuts in the Constitution for law enforcement? How many times do you see the Founding Fathers make it harder to convict people of crimes?

A system without these protections would fundamentally change our way of life. You say we should "restructure" our appeals process. Maybe we should just get rid of the Bill of Rights? Or the ex post facto clause? And double jeopardy protection?

People take all these rights for granted until the government starts taking them away. Everyone innocent person who ends up in prison never thought it could happen to them. They know their government would never do something like that! I find it laughable that conservative people don't trust the government to do anything, unless of course they are waging war or prosecuting criminals.

 

 

I am not saying I am for the death penalty in every case, but in this case... he needs to die.