starcraft said:
makingmusic476 said:
starcraft said:
Max King of the Wild said:
one fact (and only one ill rehash since im not going to get sucked into this all again since itll all get ignored anyway) is the game couldnt of been in development much longer than 3.5 years since GG had two full ps2 games and a psp games being worked on at the time not to mention devkits werent made availble till 2006 which i know some devs got sooner but i wouldnt say gg was one. mostly launch and sooner than later titles. not to mention sony bought gg basically in 2006.(which supports gg not getting devkits because most likely 1st party got em first)
that pretty much puts a damper on the 'kz2 in development for at least 5 years' arguement that people like to use to inflat cost |
Sony had Killzone 2 costs way earlier than that. You think paying for that CGI trailer was cheap? You think that bringing in two (at least) external Sony 1st party studios to help Guerrilla Games (themselves with over 120 employees for some time) was cheap?
But I agree with your last point. I do not think that Killzone 2 was in active and large-scale development for nearly five years.
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"bringing in two (at least) external Sony 1st party studios"
What on earth are you talking about? The fact that Guerilla had help from other Sony studios? You do know that's just how Sony's studios work, right? They converse and share tips and tricks on how to do different stuff with their engines. People aren't flown around or anything like that, outside of the producers who are generaly producing 3-4 games at a time. They just give each other a call, send e-mails, chat at trade shows where they might meet up, or have lunch together, if they're in the same city (Naughty Dog and Sony Santa Monica are literally right down the street from each other, and they're always getting together to chat about stuff). If you watch the credits of Uncharted, Naughty Dog thanks 7-8 other studios for their help with game, ranging from Insomniac, to Polyphony Digital, to even Guerrilla. They actually went to Guerrilla to find a solution to a problem they had with flickering shadows before the game was released.
Ultimately, Killzone 2 was made by Guerrilla Games. Sony didn't fly in dozens of game designers to make sure Guerrilla got things right. In fact, all the same team leaders from Killzone held their same positions on the Killzone 2 project. The original 40 man team was still there, and they made it a requirement that you had to live in the Netherlands to get a job on the team while they were expanding. It was all home grown. It was Guerrilla's game.
It gets really annoying when you just make shit up about the game to attack it. "The game is probably the most expensive game ever. Half of Sony's first party worked on it because Guerrilla can't do anything themselves. Microsoft could've made at least 4 more Gears games for the same price." Just shut up already.
And obviously Killzone 2 wasn't in development for five years, considering the fact that Killzone and Shellshocked weren't even released five years ago.
Edit:
Sorry for flipping out, but it just gets old. You've been saying the same crap for months now, and you ignore anyone that tries to tell you otherwise.
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Are those supposed to be quotes from me? Because I have no recollection of saying anything of the sort...
To my knowledge, Shenmue or GTAIV is the most expensive game ever. See the problem with your argument is that you take some of the more outlandish comments fanboys make and use it as justification to ignore the reasonable ones. Guerilla DID have 120 employees working on Killzone 2 for some time. Guerilla DID receive substantial support from other Sony first party studios. The argument that this always happens doesn't change the fact that it costs money.
And AGAIN. I do not believe that Killzone 2 was in active development for five years...
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They're obviously exaggerated to some degree, but they are similar to what you say time and time again. Guerrilla did not recieve substantial support from other Sony studios, outside of the normal assistance that is provided via the SCEWWS relationship. Fellow studios were not shipped out in any way to Guerrilla Games to help them out, and I can provide direct quotes from Guerrilla Games employees to prove this.
And yes, Killzone 2 was expensive, but you always try to make it out to be far more expensive than it was by comparing your own made up figures to the slimmed down budget of Gears of War, when everybody knows that Gears of War's budget does not include the creation of its engine, unlike games like MGS4 and GTAIV.
And yes, Geurrilla is now over 120 employees. In fact, they're closer to 150. But when you take into account other devs with similar team sizes and games with similar dev cycles, you'll see that that doesn't mean the game cost as high as $80 million (or 8x Gears of War's budget, as you put it, though it did probably cost more than your low end figure of $40 million). Look at MGS4. It had a 3.5 year dev cycle (if not longer, given the fact that they had in-game footage at TGS05, and the fact that Kojima mentioned in his talk today that he had originally planned to make the MGS after MGS2 on next-gen consoles, but then realized they were still a few years away, so he went on with Snake Eater), it had a team of over 150 guys for that entire dev cycle, carrying over from MGS3 (while Guerrilla Games were still building their team throughout Killzone 2's development, given that they were only recently bought by Sony), and developers in Japan (and NA) are paid significantly more than those in Amsterdam. All this, and MGS4 reportedly only cost around $50 million to develop. Do you really think Killzone 2 somehow managed to top that?
But my main issue with your posts is that you act as if it was Sony that made this game, and not Guerrilla. You act like without Sony shipping in other studios to help them out, or whatever, Geurrilla wouldn't have been able to create this game. In your attempt to downplay this game, you're belittling all effort that the guys at Geurrilla put into this. They managed to make a great game, and you're acting as if they only did it because Sony gave them magic gloves or something.
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