co2 is an after effect of rising temperatures. not a cause of.
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highwaystar101 said:
Oh yeah, well that's sound reasoning isn't it. while we are at it why don't we create an evolution chain for every known species or measure the speed of light in every known environment? Except, oh yeah, that would take FOREVER!!! Most scientific thoughts get to the theory level with not all the information needing to be studied. In fact I would imagine no simulation has ever been a true representation of all the factors involved. Plenty of research has been done on climate change and the effects we have are very clear. We may not be feeling the effects right now, but hey it takes another 50 years for climate change to happen so let's see what it's like, Why not take the risk? My girlfriends dad did his PhD based on ecology and he said he tested basic models in the 1980's that were still correct today because his theory was sound. (Sorry if I sounded like a dickhead on that rant lol) You are right about climate change being natural though. I heard that in 1000 years our damage will be gone and the earth will have recovered to it's regular cycles. That's a fair statement. Nothing we do will have a lasting effect on the earth, it will recover and it always has a cycle that will restore itself. Another ice age will come. |
You didn't sound like a dickhead... just uninformed.
These models don't leave out unknown factors. They leave out very known factors that would screw up there theories.
Why?
2 reasons mainly.
1) It's a good motivator.
Just about everything that could "stop" global warming is something people should be doing anyway for their countries benefit. So why do credibly research when we can freak them out and make them do this faster.
2) It costs a lot of time and money to become a scientist. If you don't believe in global warming... it's going to be awful hard to get a job.... nobody is going to fund you, and even if you have proof your going to be labeled a liar and that you were paid off to do your study.
So between keeping your integrety and getting a big payoff... well it's a no brainer when you've spend 6-8 years of your life dedicated to doing something.
The biggest factor to global warming? Water Vapor.
"Freidenreich and colleagues have reported the overlap of carbon dioxide and water absorption bands in the infrared region. Given the present composition of the atmosphere, the contribution to the total heating rate in the troposphere is around 5 percent from carbon dioxide and around 95 percent from water vapor."
So... where we are... it's 95% water vapor.
So you see... this is why Global Warming is natural.
Water Vapor causes global warming, which causes more water vapor, which causes global warming, which causes more water vapor etc.
Unless something comes in and breaks the cycle.
So for every 20 degrees of tempeture increase. Carbon Dioxide is repsonsible for 1 degree.
Ignoring the fact that most Carbon Dioxide isn't even manmade.
Furthermore of man made Carbon Dioxide the number 1 source is farming animals for meat.
I don't see any "Go vegetarian" cries from the general populus and government... why? Because it doesn't benfit the country like energy independence and less spent on gas lowering the trade gap.
Even though it would be easier for people to cut down on meat and more helpful for the enviroment.
It would also greatly help the global food crisis.
Water vapor is the only significant greenhouse gas.
In hot deserts the temperature in the daytime can reach 45 °C/113 °F or higher in the summer, and dip to 0 °C/32°F or lower in the winter. Water acts to trap infrared radiation from both the sun and the ground, and dry desert air is incapable of blocking sunlight during the day or trapping heat during the night. Thus, during daylight most of the sun's heat reaches the ground, and as soon as the sun sets the desert cools quickly by radiating its heat into space. Urban areas in deserts lack large (more than 14 °C/25 °F) daily temperature variations, partially due to the urban heat island effect.
Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
— Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire
Your all insane, water vapor? Ok
“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.
My opinion:
What the number one thing that factors into out climate? The sun.
When the sun gets more active, we get hotter, when the sun is less active, we get colder (like this year. The sun was less active).
Why do people always discredit the massive fireball in the sky that is the source of all of our energy as having a factor on our temperature?
Is there "climate change"? yes. The climate has been changing since the begging of time. Why all the sudden when it happens are we the cause of it?
Humans are so egotistical. God mad us in his image... we are the reason the universe is here.. for thousands of years, we thought earth was the center of the universe...
get over yourselves.
| TheRealMafoo said: My opinion: What the number one thing that factors into out climate? The sun. When the sun gets more active, we get hotter, when the sun is less active, we get colder (like this year. The sun was less active). Why do people always discredit the massive fireball in the sky that is the source of all of our energy as having a factor on our temperature? Is there "climate change"? yes. The climate has been changing since the begging of time. Why all the sudden when it happens are we the cause of it? Humans are so egotistical. God mad us in his image... we are the reason the universe is here.. for thousands of years, we thought earth was the center of the universe... get over yourselves. |
Quick! Someone bring in the hockey stick CO2 levels graphs!
I do think the climate is changing. I do think man has an effect on it. I think though that the magnitude of man's effect on the climate is being grossly exaggerated.
We should of course take care of the environment, but not to the point where we're wasting obscene amounts of money on useless "green" projects that end up having little to no effect. I'll look back on now when I'm sixty and laugh at all of the hullabaloo the man-made-climate-change scare caused.
Well yea.. When I walk into the Ocean, it rises. Not enough for anyone to care.
As for that chart. It does not take a genius to see the error in peoples logic who feel that's an indicator that we are changing the world temperature.
We just got a lot colder this year. If we effected "Climate Change" with raising CO2, then we should have gotten warmer. The fact that CO2 levels have gone through the roof, and the climate is basically unaffected by it, proves we have done very little.
That chart is more proof that we are not changing the climate then that we are.
My opinion, is you have people who feel we are ruining the world, and all they have to do is find something to prove it. What were were doing was causing "Global Cooling"... then a 10-15 years ago it started getting hotter, so we caused "Global Warming". Now for the last few years it's getting colder again, so they changed it to "Climate Change".
So what is it? We making it hotter, or are we making it colder? How are we doing it? They don't know, they just know we are.
Give me a break.
I love how people who don't believe in man-made global warming are giving thorough and thought out responses with great points, and the believers in man-made global warming either laugh it off, pretend the non-believers are stupid (a mere insult with no logical counter-argument), or ignore the post completely.
On a side-note, that sounds exactly like what many religious people do. Maybe man-made global warming can become the world's new, fastest growing religion. :P
| wfz said: I love how people who don't believe in man-made global warming are giving thorough and thought out responses with great points, and the believers in man-made global warming either laugh it off, pretend the non-believers are stupid (a mere insult with no logical counter-argument), or ignore the post completely. On a side-note, that sounds exactly like what many religious people do. Maybe man-made global warming can become the world's new, fastest growing religion. :P |
As far as i can see there arn't many who actually believe the science in here anyway.
Water vapour. where are the clouds? There is actually less cloud cover, from cloud cover comes rain but there is more drought.
Not to mention all these trees getting cut down in Malaysia and the Amazon, without them there is less moisture and vapour.
The sun, i just don't know what to say about that. If the sun is getting hotter then there would be less water vapour surely?
“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.
| megaman79 said: Your all insane, water vapor? Ok |
It is a fact that water vapour is the biggest contributor to the greenhouse effect. It is the reason why wet areas stay warm at night and why dry areas are freezing at night.
The African deserts are some of the hottest places on Earth during the day. But after the Sun sets their temperature falls below freezing, due to low water levels in the air.
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