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Forums - Sales Discussion - MS is playing dirty, I commend them (360 sku rumors).

JaggedSac on 10 March 2009
Bitmap Frogs said:
Impulsivity said:

 

  This is SUCH a false comparison.  Microsoft HAS no gaming division, they have a DEVICE division that rolls all kinds of things into their numbers.  They have Office and Windows retail sales in there, they have mice and keyboards in there, theres windows mobile in there...all kinds of things of which the 360 is only one.  They don't break out the 360 numbers alone anymore while Sony does put the PS3 alone (though they may be stopping that after restructuring).

   There is no proof the gaming devision makes money without adding in mouse sales, keyboard sales, retail office sales ect ect ect.

 

They have the sinking ship that is the Zune, the budgets for Surface, Sphere and whatnot crackpot projects, the division also hosts the blackhole that is windows mobile...

I find funny people like you with an agenda to grind use the "devices division argument" in opposite directions, depending on what's going on... big losses for the division? the 360 is sinking it. Big profits for the division? it's the other products bringing the bacon home!

You know they can't lie in their financials? Well they often comment how the 360 is the main driver of the division. Financials aren't PR, they go to jail if they lie there.

This is exactly what happens on the interwebz.

 



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Bitmap Frogs on 10 March 2009
JaggedSac said:

This is exactly what happens on the interwebz.

 

 

Yeah, and it's silly... I mean the division went from losing a billion/quarter to profiting half a billion/quarter in a year... guess they are selling a lot of zunes and surfaces hur hur.





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).

Zomb1337 on 10 March 2009
Impulsivity said:
pro+wifi already=same price as the PS3 for less hard drive capacity, no blu ray and no online gameplay. Add in even one year of Live and the 360 is more then the PS3.

I don't see how the value proposition really changes here unless they are going to start throwing in online for free or include wifi (which the cheap Wii has had from the beginning, it can't cost more then 10-15 dollars to implement).

 

So you are willing to pay $400-$500 for a PS3, $60 per game, $50 for an extra controller, and you complain about $50 a YEAR for robust online play, whether PS3 is FREE or NOT!



PREDICTIONS:
(Predicted on 5/31/11) END of 2011 Sales - Xbox 360 = 62M;  PS3 = 59M;  Wii = 97M

reptile168 on 10 March 2009
Impulsivity said:
pro+wifi already=same price as the PS3 for less hard drive capacity, no blu ray and no online gameplay. Add in even one year of Live and the 360 is more then the PS3.

I don't see how the value proposition really changes here unless they are going to start throwing in online for free or include wifi (which the cheap Wii has had from the beginning, it can't cost more then 10-15 dollars to implement).

 

don't know if it was replied, but there we go again:

if you start adding "value" to the PS3, you should do the same for the 360.

if you compare apple to apple, you should add 30$ component cables, 10$ ethernet cables, 30$ headset, 40$ kung fu panda and lego indiana jones, 129$ Playstation two for backward compatibility, 20$ usb hub because it has one less usb

suddenly, the 360 looks cheap again



sharky974 on 10 March 2009
Impulsivity said:
The-Prophet said:
Impulsivity said:
pro+wifi already=same price as the PS3 for less hard drive capacity, no blu ray and no online gameplay. Add in even one year of Live and the 360 is more then the PS3.

I don't see how the value proposition really changes here unless they are going to start throwing in online for free or include wifi (which the cheap Wii has had from the beginning, it can't cost more then 10-15 dollars to implement).

 

 you didnt even read........

he Pro has things the PS3 doesnt have. $100 of bundled games, component cables, headset, $100 less sku wise, and if the rumors are ture, a HDMI cable and another $20 less sku wise.  

360 has value too, gaming value.

 

   does getting kung fu panda free really count as a perk?  I wouldn't play games like that 10 minutes if I was being paid.  The bundled games have been consistantly pretty awful (compared with the PS3 which bundles REALLY good games like Uncharted and Metal Gear Solid 4 that people actually want to play).

   I got component cables with my PS3, I don't think thats a difference.  The Wifi overwrites the 100 dollar SKU savings (I mean 100 dollars for non N wifi?  Come on, you can get a linksys card for a PC that does N for 30 bucks or less).  Live overwrites the HDMI cable and cheap 10 dollar headset. 

  Any way you slice it the 360 is not a particularly good value proposition.  It has a low entry price, but then the accessories cost ungodly ammounts (120GB HD for 150 bucks, 100 bucks for wifi, 50 dollars a year for online play ect).  You can have a 500 GB seagate hard drive you can put in the PS3 for 60 bucks, wifi is free and online play is free, now thats after purchase value.

 

This is funny, on the one hand Sony fans like to day "well of course 360 is outselling PS3, it's $200 cheaper!". On the other they often make this point, that in reality 360 is more expensive after you add in wifi, pay online etc etc.

 

So which is it? You mean 360 is outselling PS3 even though it's more expensive? Pretty good for 360 then..



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sharky974 on 10 March 2009
dbot said:
I believe the rumor about the Elite being discontinued will happen. This has already been reported by Kotaku. I think they will bring it back for some big multiplat releases as a limited edition sku. By the way, Sony will most likely do the same thing with the 160 gig Uncharted sku.

I don't think MS will ever put in a hard drive in the Arcade model. According to Peter Moore, the hard drive in the original Xbox was a major problem for them against the PS2. It added too much cost. 20 gig drives are hard to find these days and would probably cost more than an 80 gig drive. MS has a good thing going with the Arcade, I doubt they would screw it up with mandatory storage. Also, it is unlikely that they will cut the price of the Arcade at all. It is already $50 cheaper than it's nearest competitor.

I am on the fence about bundling the HDMI cable. These cables only cost $5 for the consumer, but not all 360 owners will use HDMI. Why add the cost when it will not benefit all of your customers. The correct approach is to bundle the proprietary cable and allow the customer to purchase their own cable. Like Sony does.

 

You said it best about the HDD. The whole point of the Arcade is no expensive hard drive, they will never change that. As flash gets cheaper, theoretically they could increase the internal flash memory. However, it would need to be about 20GB to really matter, and thats still way too expensive right now. I dont see it happening. The fact MS only put 256 MB of internal memory when they could have easily put in 512 or even 1GB for minimal costs shows they are shaving every penny with the Arcade SKU.

 

I disagree about the cable though, it's nice to the consumer to include all the cables, and should be expected. I dont agree with Sony not including an HDMI cable at all (just like say, I dont agree with MS not including wi-fi for free btw). And also, the only way to get $5 HDMI cable is generally online, which only like 5% of sophisticated users like us will do. The vast majority of joe six pack consumers will get the cable at Best Buy or Wal Mart and pay $20-$40 for it.



The-Prophet on 10 March 2009
Magnific0 said:
^I'm gonna stay at last place? I'm not SCEA or anything, I'm just a consumer lol. Or do YOU work for MS?

MS didn't destroy shit as they couldn't outsell the PS3 2:1 not even in their turf, USA. That's a pretty pathetic victory having HALF the price and a BIG franchise sequel like Gow2 for the holidays. It didn't last long anyway.

Whatever. I find it laughable Microsoft's gaming division is so DESPERATE that even with their current lead and price-tag, they are shaking, I've never seen that before in my life!! A console priced half the competition, winning in sales, and less than 6 month after a global price-cut peeing in their pants already??? The truth is, they'd better stay put when the PS3 cut happens, 'cause if they do something rash as to get themselves into the red again (by doing premature cuts, as little as they'd seem, and incrementing hardware costs adding stuff for new SKUs) that will bury them for sure!

 

 I think you, and thousands of PS3 fans do care your console is in last place.

Only a PS3 fan can spin total fail into an actual PS3 victory lol.



Tyrannical on 10 March 2009

2. Arcade getting upgraded internal memory or a 20 gig harddrive.

- This will increase the value of the console and actually make it an easier buy for both casuals and even hardcore gamers, especially if the 20 gig rumor proves true.

 

Stupid, stupid, stupid rumor.

 

NO ONE MAKES 20GB HDDs ANYMORE. NO ONE!!!!

OK? End the 20GB HDD arcade rumors once and for all. Never mention OR repeat something as stupid as that rumor again.

 

20GB HDDs are not cheaper to make then larger drives. Drive manufacturers make larger and larger HDDs, but the cost of the drive doesn't change much. They just get more storage.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

The-Prophet on 11 March 2009
Impulsivity said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
Magnific0 said:
^I'm gonna stay at last place? I'm not SCEA or anything, I'm just a consumer lol. Or do YOU work for MS?

MS didn't destroy shit as they couldn't outsell the PS3 2:1 not even in their turf, USA. That's a pretty pathetic victory having HALF the price and a BIG franchise sequel like Gow2 for the holidays. It didn't last long anyway.

Whatever. I find it laughable Microsoft's gaming division is so DESPERATE that even with their current lead and price-tag, they are shaking, I've never seen that before in my life!! A console priced half the competition, winning in sales, and less than 6 month after a global price-cut peeing in their pants already??? The truth is, they'd better stay put when the PS3 cut happens, 'cause if they do something rash as to get themselves into the red again (by doing premature cuts, as little as they'd seem, and incrementing hardware costs adding stuff for new SKUs) that will bury them for sure!

 

Dude. Do you realize not only the 360 outsells the ps3 but also that Microsoft gaming division posts profits while Sony's gaming division posts losses?

 

  This is SUCH a false comparison.  Microsoft HAS no gaming division, they have a DEVICE division that rolls all kinds of things into their numbers.  They have Office and Windows retail sales in there, they have mice and keyboards in there, theres windows mobile in there...all kinds of things of which the 360 is only one.  They don't break out the 360 numbers alone anymore while Sony does put the PS3 alone (though they may be stopping that after restructuring).

   There is no proof the gaming devision makes money without adding in mouse sales, keyboard sales, retail office sales ect ect ect.

 

 MS Entertainment and Devices division includes

1. Windows Mobile.       2. Zune        3. Games for Windows            4. Xbox 360

I assure you the 360 represents most of the income.

Sony on the other hand DOES NOT put PS3-only numbers, they include PSP and PS2 numbers to soften the PS3 bleeding red ink.



WarmachineX on 11 March 2009
reptile168 said:
Impulsivity said:
pro+wifi already=same price as the PS3 for less hard drive capacity, no blu ray and no online gameplay. Add in even one year of Live and the 360 is more then the PS3.

I don't see how the value proposition really changes here unless they are going to start throwing in online for free or include wifi (which the cheap Wii has had from the beginning, it can't cost more then 10-15 dollars to implement).

 

don't know if it was replied, but there we go again:

if you start adding "value" to the PS3, you should do the same for the 360.

if you compare apple to apple, you should add 30$ component cables, 10$ ethernet cables, 30$ headset, 40$ kung fu panda and lego indiana jones, 129$ Playstation two for backward compatibility, 20$ usb hub because it has one less usb

suddenly, the 360 looks cheap again

lol nice...

$100 internet dollars for you my friend

 





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