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Forums - Nintendo - Most of us Will Never Play EarthBound Legally: Here's Why (and a question)

Words Of Wisdom on 25 February 2009
Khuutra said:

That being the case, would you find it similarly unjustifiable to buy a copy off of eBay? Extending from that, is it now morally unjustifiable for anyone who doesn't buy a game new to play that game?

I don't really know.  Up until this generation, just about every game I've ever gotten was brand new.  The only time I've ever had used games (maybe 5 total from NES to N64) was when I could not find a store that carried it new.



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Khuutra on 25 February 2009
Words Of Wisdom said:
Khuutra said:

That being the case, would you find it similarly unjustifiable to buy a copy off of eBay? Extending from that, is it now morally unjustifiable for anyone who doesn't buy a game new to play that game?

I don't really know.  Up until this generation, just about every game I've ever gotten was brand new.  The only time I've ever had used games (maybe 5 total from NES to N64) was when I could not find a store that carried it new.

It's a question worth considering, because once a game is out of print for good there is no way to give money to the creators - they never actually get your money, they get money from distributors. As such, even buying a new copy of a discontinued game (like Tales of Vesperia or Dawn of the New World or whichever one it was that was discontinued) directly from your favorite retailer won't net the creators any moolah, because there aren't going to be any re-orders. You're just clearing up space for the distributor.

I bought my copy of Mother 3 back when it was having its first (only) run, so it could be argued that I attempted to give money to Nintendo but failed anyway, because that first major shipment never really sold out until it fell into bargain bin territory more than a year later.

It's a fascinating issue, from that perspective.



twesterm on 25 February 2009
Khuutra said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
Khuutra said:
I feel like I take away something new from it every time I play.

Lemme ask you: do you see it as morally justifiable to pirate the game at this point, assuming people cannot otherwise access it?

I do not see stealing as morally justifiable in any way, shape, or form.  Enjoying something without repaying the creators in some fashion I would consider stealing.

Still, if your only options are "pirate and play" and "never play ever" I wouldn't hold a grudge over pirating.

That being the case, would you find it similarly unjustifiable to buy a copy off of eBay? Extending from that, is it now morally unjustifiable for anyone who doesn't buy a game new to play that game?

 

By that logic, isn't just as bad to by a game from a flea market, pawn shop, or Game Stop?

I'm really not going to get into the right and wrong here, but the difference in buying say some random Atari 2600 game from eBay and downloading the ROM is you're still acquiring the physical copy of that game and in a round about way buying the license for that game.  With a ROM you are not acquiring a license for that game, you're just taking it.

 



 

Khuutra on 25 February 2009
twesterm said:
Khuutra said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
Khuutra said:
I feel like I take away something new from it every time I play.

Lemme ask you: do you see it as morally justifiable to pirate the game at this point, assuming people cannot otherwise access it?

I do not see stealing as morally justifiable in any way, shape, or form.  Enjoying something without repaying the creators in some fashion I would consider stealing.

Still, if your only options are "pirate and play" and "never play ever" I wouldn't hold a grudge over pirating.

That being the case, would you find it similarly unjustifiable to buy a copy off of eBay? Extending from that, is it now morally unjustifiable for anyone who doesn't buy a game new to play that game?

By that logic, isn't just as bad to by a game from a flea market, pawn shop, or Game Stop?

I'm really not going to get into the right and wrong here, but the difference in buying say some random Atari 2600 game from eBay and downloading the ROM is you're still acquiring the physical copy of that game and in a round about way buying the license for that game.  With a ROM you are not acquiring a license for that game, you're just taking it.

That was kind of my point.

Don't license agreements in most older games preclude even lending it to friends?



twesterm on 25 February 2009
Khuutra said:
twesterm said:
Khuutra said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
Khuutra said:
I feel like I take away something new from it every time I play.

Lemme ask you: do you see it as morally justifiable to pirate the game at this point, assuming people cannot otherwise access it?

I do not see stealing as morally justifiable in any way, shape, or form.  Enjoying something without repaying the creators in some fashion I would consider stealing.

Still, if your only options are "pirate and play" and "never play ever" I wouldn't hold a grudge over pirating.

That being the case, would you find it similarly unjustifiable to buy a copy off of eBay? Extending from that, is it now morally unjustifiable for anyone who doesn't buy a game new to play that game?

By that logic, isn't just as bad to by a game from a flea market, pawn shop, or Game Stop?

I'm really not going to get into the right and wrong here, but the difference in buying say some random Atari 2600 game from eBay and downloading the ROM is you're still acquiring the physical copy of that game and in a round about way buying the license for that game.  With a ROM you are not acquiring a license for that game, you're just taking it.

That was kind of my point.

Don't license agreements in most older games preclude even lending it to friends?

 

In lending games you're still giving the physical copy of the game so only one of you are going to be able to play it.

And no other industry is safe from pawn shops so why should the game industry be any different?



 

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MaxwellGT2000 on 25 February 2009
Khuutra said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Question how did the original come out with all of those issues with no lawsuits yet now it's an issue?

This is a very good question. I hope you don't mind if I quote Tomato.

Another common question is, “Why is this a problem now? They released EarthBound like 15 years ago and this stuff wasn’t a problem.”

In fact, Nintendo DID have a problem with a lot of stuff in EarthBound back in 1995. A lot of changes had to be made before the 1995 legal squad then gave its approval:

INSERT EXAMPLES HERE FOLKS

There are also things like default names, which had a set of Beatles names that was cut from EarthBound. There are probably many more things that I’ve forgotten or that have escaped my notice. My incomplete site chronicling EB’s censorship, legal-related changes, mistranslations, good translations, and other stuff can be seen here.

So the question is, why didn’t the legal people in 1995 change all this other stuff that’s a problem now? Intellectual property law hasn’t changed very much since then, right?

What’s changed is the Internet. Back in 1995, we didn’t have Google, or Wikipedia, or YouTube, or fansites. The legal people obviously went through the game as best as they could, but some of this other stuff IS pretty obscure. Nowadays, one search on Google and a check on Wikipedia and YouTube can get you all kinds of information about this sort of stuff.

Then of course is the fact that the recording industry is a lot more sue-happy than it used to be. RIAA and all that, I’m sure I don’t need to say anymore.

It also doesn’t help that the musicians and producers have gone on record in interviews stating that they used specific movies and songs for inspiration for stuff in the game. Though luckily most of it hasn’t been translated yet (someday! ) so that probably wasn’t a very big factor. I should mention quickly though that the game’s musicians LOVE music, so their use of samples and other stuff from other songs wasn’t meant to be cheap, but to pay homage to musicians who inspired them. They even used some of their own songs in the game, the bicycle song wasn’t meant for EarthBound originally, and Dalaam’s music was something else originally. The musicians borrowed from everywhere, which is why EarthBound has so much music and so much varied music. No harm was intended, but times change.

I bolded the most important part.

 

Still I don't think anything in the game is direct enough to even fall under a copyright of anykind, sure we know Runaway Five is a round about Blues Brothers, but they don't have the likeness or music, they play blues and they have hapless adventures much like the Blues Brothers.  I can't even think of anything else that is that direct and the thing is if thats such an issue then someone should have sued Blizzard a long time ago, even World of Warcraft has so many pop culture references and far more blatant then Earthbound. 

I think NoA's lawyers just need to get the corncobs out of their asses, but that's me.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

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bouzane on 25 February 2009

This is bad news, games like Earthbound are too rare/valuable to be worth buying outside of the Virtual Console nowadays.



Khuutra on 25 February 2009
RolStoppable said:
To answer the big question of the OP: I wouldn't regret playing Earthbound on an emulator, just like I didn't regret playing a Fire Emblem 6 ROM. It's not like the company is losing money because of me, it was their decision that they didn't allow me to buy a game I wanted to buy by not bringing it over to Europe.

Did you do that in English or Japanese?

Also why havn't you played EarthBound? It makes you very un-trustworthy.



Khuutra on 25 February 2009
RolStoppable said:
Khuutra said:
RolStoppable said:
To answer the big question of the OP: I wouldn't regret playing Earthbound on an emulator, just like I didn't regret playing a Fire Emblem 6 ROM. It's not like the company is losing money because of me, it was their decision that they didn't allow me to buy a game I wanted to buy by not bringing it over to Europe.

Did you do that in English or Japanese?

Also why havn't you played EarthBound? It makes you very un-trustworthy.

There's an English fan translation for FE6.

I hardly play any games on the PC and when I was using emulators, I never finished any game (including titles like Chrono Trigger and Star Ocean). FE6 was the only game I ever finished this way. No idea why I never tried out Earthbound.

Really? I tried to find it earlier in the year, but could not.



wfz on 25 February 2009
Khuutra said:
RolStoppable said:
Khuutra said:
RolStoppable said:
To answer the big question of the OP: I wouldn't regret playing Earthbound on an emulator, just like I didn't regret playing a Fire Emblem 6 ROM. It's not like the company is losing money because of me, it was their decision that they didn't allow me to buy a game I wanted to buy by not bringing it over to Europe.

Did you do that in English or Japanese?

Also why havn't you played EarthBound? It makes you very un-trustworthy.

There's an English fan translation for FE6.

I hardly play any games on the PC and when I was using emulators, I never finished any game (including titles like Chrono Trigger and Star Ocean). FE6 was the only game I ever finished this way. No idea why I never tried out Earthbound.

Really? I tried to find it earlier in the year, but could not.

Wow I thought you guys were talking about FF6 the whole time, and I was extremely confused. :P Which FE is FE6?

To answer the OP, no I don't feel any moral issues with playing the game on a ROM, since there's no way for Nintendo to even sell us a copy of the game. That, and I already have it on my Snes, so I see no problem with me having a ROM...

 

Rol you should really play Earthbound if you find the chance someday, I bet you of all people would really appreciate it's humor. It's quirky, unique, and really well done. Hell I bet you could even learn a thing or two from it!