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Forums - Gaming - 360 CPU and Cell are fairly equal according to Dave Shippy

Fishie on 24 February 2009
joeorc said:
NJ5 said:

@Procastinato: So now most engine programmers are newbs? That's like the "developers are lazy" argument, it completely ignores one of the most important matters of game development - cost. Time equals money, the Cell equals more invested time in engine programming, which equals more money spent.

It's not that developers are lazy or stupid, it's that they have limited time and budget. Sony needs to learn that lesson and make developer-friendly consoles.

 

it's not like that, yes more time does mean more money..but also it mean's you as a developer will not be prepaired for the next trend in Microprocessor's..like the Cell processor..if you look at the way the New processor's from Intel,Ati,Nvidia and Amd, IBM, STI they are all producing

CPU/GPU combo chip's it's learn it now or later ..that's the developer's choice, some are learning it now

 

 Why do you keep talking about stuff you dont understand and stuff like STI(Sony bailed out of the project, look it up so even Sony gave up on CELL)that no longer exists?

 



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CHYUII on 24 February 2009

LIES! ALL LIES!!
The ALL POWERFUL CELL CHIP, Hears you ALL!!!
It Will AVENGE ITSELF!!!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9HN4zSriDs

Tomorrow is the day tomorrow dies.

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=69597&page=1

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=69907&page=1

Cueil on 24 February 2009
Procrastinato said:
Cueil said:
haxxiy said:
Yeah, 165 million transistors, 1MB of cache and 3 cores are indeed very similar to 300 million transistors, 2,5MB of cache and 9 cores. That's why everybody uses X360 as cluster supercomputers like PS3.

No seriously, at its very best the X360's CPU is 3,2 GHz x 8 FLOPS/clock cycle (as any IBM PPE) x 3 cores = 76,2 GFLOPS of peak performance.

PS3 has nine cores (1 PPE, 8 SPEs) at 3.2 GHz which means 230,4 GFLOPS of peak performance or 179,2 in-game processing power avaliable.

Oh and btw the RSX is also a bit stronger than the Xenos (4 alus x 2 madds x 24 pipelines + 5 alus x 8 pipelines x 550 MHz = 255 GFLOPS verse 5 alus x 48 pipelines x 500 MHz = 240 GFLOPS)

X360 multiplats look better most of time because X360 has more memory avaliable (more memory = bigger textures and frame buffer) and PS3 is harder to work. Plus most PS3 multiplats do not even work with the whole Cell at all (only its single general purpose core).

Your haterboxes.

No one needs to read past your ignorant 9 core statement to know that you don't even have the slightest clue as to what you're talking about.  How about doing some research on the Cell before spewing out number some idiot post on the official PlayStation forums.  SPEs are not cores and they most certainly don't all run at 3.2 ghz the Cell is an asynchronous processor.  If your ignorance was any greater you would choke and die on it.  Multiplats look better on the 360 because the system was designed as a gaming platform first and formost and was build with developers wishes in mind.

 

I like this guy.  He's on something a lot stronger than beer, but he knows how to lay it on.

I love this part the best: "SPEs are not cores and they most certainly don't all run at 3.2 ghz the Cell is an asynchronous processor".

Where is the sense?  Its totally missing!  He just strung together words from other posts and made sentences.  Awesome.  Its like modern sarcastic poetry.

I salute your humor, sir.  Keep it to beer though man.  That harsher stuff will hurt ya over time.

 

 

SPE's are not cores... they are more like the ALUs in the PS2 than they are CPUs... they don't run at the same frequency as the PPC core does much less the rest of the SPEs.  That sentence made sense if you understood what I was talking about.  I'd salute your ignorance, but then again being interested in this type of thing isn't every ones forte and thus I let you off the hook.  The reason I go off like this is because of trying to understand their prefered console they spew out numbers that they hardly can grasp and past shit they find on google to their post to make it seem like they may know what they are talking about.

 



 
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joeorc on 24 February 2009
Procrastinato said:
heruamon said:
John Carmack is the definition of a programming god, imho...so usually, when he says something about programming, I usually say...okay.

You have got statements from the Dav id Shippy, then you've got comments from John Carmack...so unless somebody is a programmer, and they have some pretty robust data to back it up...I kinda have to believe what those guys have to say...over some fanboys screaming "Cellz Rulez"

I don't get it.  Carmack said that his engine is bound by having to cater to the lowest common denominator... i.e. the 360.  You think he is arguing that the Cell is the same?  He's talking about its being the same, as far as effective cross-platform development is concerned, which is totally true.  He's not saying anything about the Xenon and Cell being on par.  He's saying that he can't use any of the bonus speed of the Cell effectively, because he can't write to the metal of every chip his software runs on...

My beer writes some pretty fancy code, so I say beer is right, and so is Carmack, and you've got what he's saying $#*-backwards.

 

-this, he is talking about his engine, other engine's have better, or worse result's, it depend's on the DEVELOPER, the OP had brought forth

a great article based on what shippy- was designing, but Like you had already stated, DR. Hofstee had more involvement in the Cell than Carmack..there is a big gap in developing for the design, compared to designing the chip itself..!

-beer is on tap fella's

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Procrastinato on 24 February 2009
Cueil said:

SPE's are not cores... they are more like the ALUs in the PS2 than they are CPUs... they don't run at the same frequency as the PPC core does much less the rest of the SPEs.  That sentence made sense if you understood what I was talking about.  I'd salute your ignorance, but then again being interested in this type of thing isn't every ones forte and thus I let you off the hook.  The reason I go off like this is because of trying to understand their prefered console they spew out numbers that they hardly can grasp and past shit they find on google to their post to make it seem like they may know what they are talking about.

 

You do realize that any schmuck can look up the BS that you just spewed on wikipedia, and any other source, and you'll look like a fool, right?

If you're serious with your comments... you need some help... or maybe just some reading skills.

 



 

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heruamon on 24 February 2009
Procrastinato said:
heruamon said:
John Carmack is the definition of a programming god, imho...so usually, when he says something about programming, I usually say...okay.

You have got statements from the Dav id Shippy, then you've got comments from John Carmack...so unless somebody is a programmer, and they have some pretty robust data to back it up...I kinda have to believe what those guys have to say...over some fanboys screaming "Cellz Rulez"

I don't get it.  Carmack said that his engine is bound by having to cater to the lowest common denominator... i.e. the 360.  You think he is arguing that the Cell is the same?  He's talking about its being the same, as far as effective cross-platform development is concerned, which is totally true.  He's not saying anything about the Xenon and Cell being on par.  He's saying that he can't use any of the bonus speed of the Cell effectively, because he can't write to the metal of every chip his software runs on...

My beer writes some pretty fancy code, so I say beer is right, and so is Carmack, and you've got what he's saying $#*-backwards.

 

 

 "Yeah, we’ve got a really good technical solution for that. Our current technology base is all built from the ground up to support this. And there is a little bit of least common denominator-ing, where usually the PS3 becomes the sticky point in terms of [being] a little bit slower on the graphics, you’ve got a little bit of less memory to deal with but a little bit more processing power. So you kind of have to balance the things between all of that. But our important fundamental decisions do have to be made around what’s going to work on the console, even though people with the very highest end PCs might have a system with a couple times the processing power of what a console has. We can’t do anything specifically focused towards that that would be in any way detrimental to the rest of the market."

Least isn't the same as lowest...



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

joeorc on 24 February 2009
Fishie said:
joeorc said:
NJ5 said:

@Procastinato: So now most engine programmers are newbs? That's like the "developers are lazy" argument, it completely ignores one of the most important matters of game development - cost. Time equals money, the Cell equals more invested time in engine programming, which equals more money spent.

It's not that developers are lazy or stupid, it's that they have limited time and budget. Sony needs to learn that lesson and make developer-friendly consoles.

 

it's not like that, yes more time does mean more money..but also it mean's you as a developer will not be prepaired for the next trend in Microprocessor's..like the Cell processor..if you look at the way the New processor's from Intel,Ati,Nvidia and Amd, IBM, STI they are all producing

CPU/GPU combo chip's it's learn it now or later ..that's the developer's choice, some are learning it now

 

 Why do you keep talking about stuff you dont understand and stuff like STI(Sony bailed out of the project, look it up so even Sony gave up on CELL)that no longer exists?

 

o'l brother..bailing..huh, look who happen's to hold patent's on the Cell processor, and guess what Sony can just buy chip's off of Toshiba

or build another plant and produce them their selves if Sony wanted too....you act like the Cell is a Failure..god you are dense

-beer is on tap

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Fishie on 24 February 2009
forevercloud3000 said:
UHG! another one of these threads. I would think this guy HAS to say they are equal because if he didn't then MS or Sony would be very much angry with IBM for gimping one of them. The Cell + RSX architechture trumps the 360s. It is tried......tested.........and proven on multiple occassions.

One man saying they are equal who obviously has an ulterior motive as he needs to please both sides pails in comparison to...
-multiple game developers stating the PS3 has more potential
-360 developers saying they have tapped out the 360
-THe fact that the PS3s architecture is the same being used in the worlds strongest super computer
-PS3 clusters used to break into a bank
-Games like Killzone outperforming the 360s best looking game in graphics and physics. Outrageous enemy counts in games like Heavenly Sword. And the pure beauty of Uncharted trumping anything on consoles as we speak.
-Dont forget the fact GOWIII and Uncharted stand to look even better then Killzone 2(Graphically Speaking).

 

 

What planet do you live on?



heruamon on 24 February 2009

BTW...what kind of beer are we talking about...lol...I'm a heineken man myself.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

Cueil on 24 February 2009
joeorc said:

 

@

Cueil

No one needs to read past your ignorant 9 core statement to know that you don't even have the slightest clue as to what you're talking about. How about doing some research on the Cell before spewing out number some idiot post on the official PlayStation forums. SPEs are not cores and they most certainly don't all run at 3.2 ghz the Cell is an asynchronous processor. If your ignorance was any greater you would choke and die on it. Multiplats look better on the 360 because the system was designed as a gaming platform first and formost and was build with developers wishes in mind.

 

your a very funny guy..IF you would have done research your self , you would have indeed known that the SPU's are indeed CORES

I GUESS you know more about it than

Dr. H. Peter Hofstee, Cell Chief Scientist and Cell Synergistic Processor Chief Architect

"The use of multi-core processors, such as the IBM Cell Processor" you can't be a multi-core processor with only one Core

One of the Multi-Core sessions will be led by Dr. H. Peter Hofstee, Cell Chief Scientist and Cell Synergistic Processor Chief Architect, with the IBM Systems and Technology Group. Hofstee joined the IBM Austin Research Laboratory in 1996 where he worked on the world's first 1GHz CMOS integer microprocessor. In 2001, he was one of the founding members of the joint Sony-Toshiba-IBM design center in Austin to develop the next generation of microprocessors for the broadband era. Dr. Hofstee received his Ph.D. in computer science from Caltech in 1995 and was on the faculty there through 1996.

"Dr. Hofstee's participation in the conference is a huge plus for the industry," said Dr. Winthrop Smith, leader of the Multi-Core Processor Tutorial. "The cell processor will affect all players in the digital entertainment, enterprise computing and semiconductor industry sectors. Dr. Hofstee will be able to share his unique insight with conference attendees."

 

dr. Hofstee say's they are Core's..hmm who is right you or the:

Dr. H. Peter Hofstee, Cell Chief Scientist and Cell Synergistic Processor Chief Architect

 

 

 

 

 He can call his shit what ever they fuck he wants, but they are not cores... The Cell itself is a core that has one PPC and 8 SPEs.  We can argue over this bs all day and never get anywhere, but a multi-core system isn't a CPU with some specilized "processors" on it...



 
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