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Forums - Sales - Xbox 360 is at a Mass Market Price -- But Are YOY Sales INCREASES enough?

kitler53 said:
Squilliam said:
PalmiNio said:
Squilliam said:
Darth:

Microsofts real problem is not their performance relative to the PS3/Wii, their problems stem from the relative performance of the SKUs.

The Arcade is just too good, and the upgrade kit is too enticing. The Arcade is stealing sales of the Xbox 360 Premium and thats lowering total revenue/profitability. Their issue is making the Premium/Elite SKUs more relevant and therefore increase their revenue from hardware and ensure a greater adoption of SKUs with HDDs as their online revenue is a substantial part of their business.

 

Do you have facts to support that? Do you know the breakdown numbers of the diffrent SKUs?

Can only talk for the 2 biggest electric chains in sweden and looking at the sales number the 60gb Pro/Premium version sold more over christmas and new years the arcade. Some stores doesn't even have Arcade on the shelves.

In MS case you allways have to look at the competition. Sure Wii is unfair in one way but that's the best finanscial position nad MS don't have it. But on the other hand Sony is doing worse with PS3 and the high price is not an argument for lower sales.

If the fact was that Sony more then twice as much money as MS on every PS3 compared to 360 then it would be good for Sony and bad for MS but as long as they make less money per console and sell less then MS has the upper hand. The price of a product can't be drawn to sales, half the price never means double the sales. The important thing is to make money and since 360 is creating more money then PS3 the winner is clear. And looking at Wii the case is even more clear.

This is from memory:

1. The average sales price has dropped to ~$270

2. Reports of the Arcade SKU making up 50% of the total sales, whereas before it made up a far smaller % and the Premium was dominant.

Also its supported by economic theory, price elasticity (Ratio of change in demand due to price changes) is greatest within the Xbox 360 product group (Arcade, Premium, Elite) than the cross price elasticity between the PS3 and Xbox 360. Which means more people will buy an Arcade due to it being cheaper/better value than will be swayed from buying a PS3 into buying an Xbox 360.

 

so in summary: no.

 

Mrstickball said:

"One should remember that, in America, the average price for a X360 in January (as per NPD) was $263 USD. So Arcade penetration is something fierce now"

 



Tease.

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A increase is always better then a decrease is the way I see it. Especially in this bad economy.



Squilliam said:
kitler53 said:
Squilliam said:
PalmiNio said:
Squilliam said:
Darth:

Microsofts real problem is not their performance relative to the PS3/Wii, their problems stem from the relative performance of the SKUs.

The Arcade is just too good, and the upgrade kit is too enticing. The Arcade is stealing sales of the Xbox 360 Premium and thats lowering total revenue/profitability. Their issue is making the Premium/Elite SKUs more relevant and therefore increase their revenue from hardware and ensure a greater adoption of SKUs with HDDs as their online revenue is a substantial part of their business.

 

Do you have facts to support that? Do you know the breakdown numbers of the diffrent SKUs?

Can only talk for the 2 biggest electric chains in sweden and looking at the sales number the 60gb Pro/Premium version sold more over christmas and new years the arcade. Some stores doesn't even have Arcade on the shelves.

In MS case you allways have to look at the competition. Sure Wii is unfair in one way but that's the best finanscial position nad MS don't have it. But on the other hand Sony is doing worse with PS3 and the high price is not an argument for lower sales.

If the fact was that Sony more then twice as much money as MS on every PS3 compared to 360 then it would be good for Sony and bad for MS but as long as they make less money per console and sell less then MS has the upper hand. The price of a product can't be drawn to sales, half the price never means double the sales. The important thing is to make money and since 360 is creating more money then PS3 the winner is clear. And looking at Wii the case is even more clear.

This is from memory:

1. The average sales price has dropped to ~$270

2. Reports of the Arcade SKU making up 50% of the total sales, whereas before it made up a far smaller % and the Premium was dominant.

Also its supported by economic theory, price elasticity (Ratio of change in demand due to price changes) is greatest within the Xbox 360 product group (Arcade, Premium, Elite) than the cross price elasticity between the PS3 and Xbox 360. Which means more people will buy an Arcade due to it being cheaper/better value than will be swayed from buying a PS3 into buying an Xbox 360.

 

so in summary: no.

 

Mrstickball said:

"One should remember that, in America, the average price for a X360 in January (as per NPD) was $263 USD. So Arcade penetration is something fierce now"

 

 

average cost = [(a%*360T)(200)+(p%*360T)(300)+(e%*360T)(400)]/(360T)

where: 360T= total 360 sales, a% = percent of total sales by arcade, p%=percent of total sale from pro, e%=percent of total sales from elite

1 equation - 3 unknowns means this isn't enough information to prove your claim.  so do you have facts to support your claims or not?  so far you don't.



Squilliam said:
PalmiNio said:
Squilliam said:
Darth:

Microsofts real problem is not their performance relative to the PS3/Wii, their problems stem from the relative performance of the SKUs.

The Arcade is just too good, and the upgrade kit is too enticing. The Arcade is stealing sales of the Xbox 360 Premium and thats lowering total revenue/profitability. Their issue is making the Premium/Elite SKUs more relevant and therefore increase their revenue from hardware and ensure a greater adoption of SKUs with HDDs as their online revenue is a substantial part of their business.

 

Do you have facts to support that? Do you know the breakdown numbers of the diffrent SKUs?

Can only talk for the 2 biggest electric chains in sweden and looking at the sales number the 60gb Pro/Premium version sold more over christmas and new years the arcade. Some stores doesn't even have Arcade on the shelves.

In MS case you allways have to look at the competition. Sure Wii is unfair in one way but that's the best finanscial position nad MS don't have it. But on the other hand Sony is doing worse with PS3 and the high price is not an argument for lower sales.

If the fact was that Sony more then twice as much money as MS on every PS3 compared to 360 then it would be good for Sony and bad for MS but as long as they make less money per console and sell less then MS has the upper hand. The price of a product can't be drawn to sales, half the price never means double the sales. The important thing is to make money and since 360 is creating more money then PS3 the winner is clear. And looking at Wii the case is even more clear.

This is from memory:

1. The average sales price has dropped to ~$270

2. Reports of the Arcade SKU making up 50% of the total sales, whereas before it made up a far smaller % and the Premium was dominant.

Also its supported by economic theory, price elasticity (Ratio of change in demand due to price changes) is greatest within the Xbox 360 product group (Arcade, Premium, Elite) than the cross price elasticity between the PS3 and Xbox 360. Which means more people will buy an Arcade due to it being cheaper/better value than will be swayed from buying a PS3 into buying an Xbox 360.

 

Well first of all, you don't know the price elasticity on video console. You may know the theory of it but in that case you should know that lower price is not equal to the same rise in sales. To meassure the elasticity between 2 different products like 360 vs PS3 is not the same as within the same product. The elasticity is much higher between Pro and Elite then between Pro and Arcade and thus we can belive that the change in price doesn't effect the ratio between Pro and Arcade that great.

I know that Arcade did top around 50% but that was when it took over after Core. The good price with wireless controller and memorycard created a great rise. But with the new 60gb model and the low difference in price I belive that the Pro model is on top again and that it offers most 360 for the bucks and that most consumers find that this model has most value.

I suppose it's also diffrent from region to region. Is the difference still 199 vs 299 in the US? In Sweden it's 1800 vs 2500 which is about 80 dollars in difference.



Predictions for 2009:

360: 39-42 PS3: 31-34 Wii: 67-70

Future projection

Wii will hit 100 million before christmas 2010 (made december 2008)

NDS Family will have sold and shipped more then PS2 at the end of 2009 (made january 2009)

darthdevidem01 said:

{credit to kowenicki for the data}

Compared to last year...

2008 week ending 5th Jan to week ending 9th Feb

Wii  1,909,368          47.4%

PS3  1,256,497         31.3%

360   854,869           21.3%

Total  4,020,734

 

2009 week ending 3rd Jan to week ending 7th Feb

Wii  2,733,445          52.8%    (up 824,077 or 43.2% on 2008)

PS3  1,051,797          20.3%    (down 204,700 or 16.3% on 2008)

360  1,395,980          26.9%    (up 541,111 or 63.3% on 2008)

Total  5,181,222        up 28.9%

 

So in a rising market the Wii is taking off, the 360 is follwing that market.

BUT what I am asking is 360 is up 500K in January.....however wii was up by more.

I am wondering whether this increase in sales i actually worth of taking note considering the xbox 360 is at a mass market price point but the wii increase still proves to be greater.

 

 You are silly.

How can a 63% YoY increase with a 25% price drop be anything but extremely impressive? Going by history of console price drops the X360 should have reached the mass market price earlier. At this point in time the PS2 had dropped to $179 already and was about to be dropped to $149 (in May 2004 - it's 4th year) - while the X360 still has a very popular $300 SKU beside the Arcade $200 one.

And yet the X360 is selling close to PS2 levels now. It's a huge success.



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I think one of the factors at play is how people can rank the consoles in their minds if all three cost the same amount.

You can be:

1 2 3 4 5 6
1st Choice Wii Wii X360 X360 PS3 PS3
2nd Choice X360 PS3 PS3 Wii X360 Wii
3rd Choice PS3 X360 Wii PS3 Wii X360

 

You can get an Xbox 360 for $200-$400, Wii for $250, or PS3 for $400 essentially. But I think its fair to say that alot of people only have a slight preference one way in favor of PS3 or 360. Given that the Xbox 360 is selling for $268 (per Gamasutra) in the USA, scenarios 1-4 are likely the most common, probably to 70-80% of the market. Price drops when PS3 is immediately beneath Xbox 360 will change some minds to PS3 but, when Xbox 360 is beneath PS3 in preference, and gets a price drop it probably changes more minds since it is cheaper already and offers comparable experiences. Wii outsells Xbox 360 2:1 or more in most markets even when 360 is within 10% by average price or cheaper so Xbox 360 price cuts would only switch some people in scenarions 1 and 6 toward Wii because it is sufficiently differentiated.


So...in terms of weighting and how purchasing patterns in the six groups could go:

30m 25m 20m 15m 10m 5m
1 2 3 4 5 6
1st Choice Wii - 60% Wii - 60% X360 - 50% X360 - 50% PS3 - 45% PS3 - 45%
2nd Choice X360 - 30% PS3 - 30% PS3 - 35% Wii - 35% X360 - 35% Wii - 35%
3rd Choice PS3 - 10% X360 - 10% Wii - 15% PS3 - 15% Wii - 20% X360 - 20%

 

Wii

18m 15m 3m 5.25m 2m 1.75m 45m
X360 9m 2.5m 10m 7.5m 3.5m 1m 33.5m
PS3 3m 7.5m 7m 2.25m 4.5m 2.25m 26.5m

Thats very rough, but it would be 45m Wiis, 33.5m 360s, and 26.5m PS3s based on preferences of the six groups. I'd wager Wii will finish a bit higher and the others a bit lower but its not a bad guess off the top of my head.

 



People are difficult to govern because they have too much knowledge.

When there are more laws, there are more criminals.

- Lao Tzu

Slimebeast said:
darthdevidem01 said:

{credit to kowenicki for the data}

Compared to last year...

2008 week ending 5th Jan to week ending 9th Feb

Wii  1,909,368          47.4%

PS3  1,256,497         31.3%

360   854,869           21.3%

Total  4,020,734

 

2009 week ending 3rd Jan to week ending 7th Feb

Wii  2,733,445          52.8%    (up 824,077 or 43.2% on 2008)

PS3  1,051,797          20.3%    (down 204,700 or 16.3% on 2008)

360  1,395,980          26.9%    (up 541,111 or 63.3% on 2008)

Total  5,181,222        up 28.9%

 

So in a rising market the Wii is taking off, the 360 is follwing that market.

BUT what I am asking is 360 is up 500K in January.....however wii was up by more.

I am wondering whether this increase in sales i actually worth of taking note considering the xbox 360 is at a mass market price point but the wii increase still proves to be greater.

 

 You are silly.

How can a 63% YoY increase with a 25% price drop be anything but extremely impressive? Going by history of console price drops the X360 should have reached the mass market price earlier. At this point in time the PS2 had dropped to $179 already and was about to be dropped to $149 (in May 2004 - it's 4th year) - while the X360 still has a very popular $300 SKU beside the Arcade $200 one.

And yet the X360 is selling close to PS2 levels now. It's a huge success.


You are 100% correct but take this thread for what it is : another silly theory in the long line of silly theories (like comparing the price of the ps3 with that of the ....arcade xbox360 ) that have been created to give some kind of comfort to insecure sony fanboys .

kitler53 said:
Squilliam said:
kitler53 said:
Squilliam said:
PalmiNio said:
Squilliam said:
Darth:

Microsofts real problem is not their performance relative to the PS3/Wii, their problems stem from the relative performance of the SKUs.

The Arcade is just too good, and the upgrade kit is too enticing. The Arcade is stealing sales of the Xbox 360 Premium and thats lowering total revenue/profitability. Their issue is making the Premium/Elite SKUs more relevant and therefore increase their revenue from hardware and ensure a greater adoption of SKUs with HDDs as their online revenue is a substantial part of their business.

 

Do you have facts to support that? Do you know the breakdown numbers of the diffrent SKUs?

Can only talk for the 2 biggest electric chains in sweden and looking at the sales number the 60gb Pro/Premium version sold more over christmas and new years the arcade. Some stores doesn't even have Arcade on the shelves.

In MS case you allways have to look at the competition. Sure Wii is unfair in one way but that's the best finanscial position nad MS don't have it. But on the other hand Sony is doing worse with PS3 and the high price is not an argument for lower sales.

If the fact was that Sony more then twice as much money as MS on every PS3 compared to 360 then it would be good for Sony and bad for MS but as long as they make less money per console and sell less then MS has the upper hand. The price of a product can't be drawn to sales, half the price never means double the sales. The important thing is to make money and since 360 is creating more money then PS3 the winner is clear. And looking at Wii the case is even more clear.

This is from memory:

1. The average sales price has dropped to ~$270

2. Reports of the Arcade SKU making up 50% of the total sales, whereas before it made up a far smaller % and the Premium was dominant.

Also its supported by economic theory, price elasticity (Ratio of change in demand due to price changes) is greatest within the Xbox 360 product group (Arcade, Premium, Elite) than the cross price elasticity between the PS3 and Xbox 360. Which means more people will buy an Arcade due to it being cheaper/better value than will be swayed from buying a PS3 into buying an Xbox 360.

 

so in summary: no.

 

Mrstickball said:

"One should remember that, in America, the average price for a X360 in January (as per NPD) was $263 USD. So Arcade penetration is something fierce now"

 

 

average cost = [(a%*360T)(200)+(p%*360T)(300)+(e%*360T)(400)]/(360T)

where: 360T= total 360 sales, a% = percent of total sales by arcade, p%=percent of total sale from pro, e%=percent of total sales from elite

1 equation - 3 unknowns means this isn't enough information to prove your claim.  so do you have facts to support your claims or not?  so far you don't.


If you have total sales numbers for the 360 over that time you should have a pretty dang good piece of a priori information.  If the total sales numbers are the same ones MS used you can also assume your variables are all integers which will probably reduce this to just a single solution, you might be out of luck and get more than one but probably not.  



Proud member of the Sonic Support Squad

It was not only up 63% on itself, but had an 80% change over the PS3 which is pretty big. Granted it was supply constrained, yadda yadda yadda, but MS has to be pretty pleased with those numbers to their most direct competitor.



Consoles Owned: Atari 2600, NES, Sega Genesis, Sega Saturn, N64, Gamecube, Wii, XBOX360

kitler53 said:
Squilliam said:

Mrstickball said:

"One should remember that, in America, the average price for a X360 in January (as per NPD) was $263 USD. So Arcade penetration is something fierce now"

 

average cost = [(a%*360T)(200)+(p%*360T)(300)+(e%*360T)(400)]/(360T)

where: 360T= total 360 sales, a% = percent of total sales by arcade, p%=percent of total sale from pro, e%=percent of total sales from elite

1 equation - 3 unknowns means this isn't enough information to prove your claim.  so do you have facts to support your claims or not?  so far you don't.

Just because you have 3 unknowns doesn't mean that you can't have baseline numbers for the minimum number of arcade units sold per month.

If you used the assumption that 0% of the ultra-expensive Elites were sold (which any sold would drive the Arcade ratio up), and that all units sold were either Arcades or Pros, you'd end up with Arcades selling 37% of all Xbox 360's sold in January. That's the worst case scenario for Arcades.

Now, the next assumption would be reasonable: that 10% of all units sold are Elites...Which has been the average from my understanding. If value e was assumed at 10%, then the Arcade marketshare would be closer to 47.5%/42.5%/10.0%.

So worst case scenario would be 37% for Arcade sales, and best case (assuming the Elite didn't sell more than 10% of all consoles, which is doubtful it'd be higher), at 47.5%

So pick a number between 37-47.5%.

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.