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Forums - Sony Discussion - Killzone- bad guys have more appeal!?!

Kantor said:

That was poetic. Anyway,

They also become frustrated that the Helghan are creating vast wealth off the backs of colonial endeavors that the UCN itself has underwritten.

Basically, the UCA paid for these, and the Helghan are profiting from it. Fair? No. They certainly overreacted with the "ZOMGBOMBEVERYTHINGINSIGHT!", but they had a right to be pissed.

As for the shortage of money,

The Helghan government turns in a significant tax-surplus in each budget, stockpiling the money away in case of disaster. By 2155 this stockpile has gotten so big that the Helghan Administration makes an offer to the ISA to purchase the Alpha-Centauri system outright - allowing them to avoid sending their yearly tithe to Earth in favor of a fee paying system for individual services, such as support of the local ISA Command.

 

 

The UCN would normally have rejected the offer outright, but were then cash poor - other colonial endeavors are costing them heavily.

The UCA were short on money. They needed money. The Helghan were taking money from them. This is not said outright, but it's pretty clear.

Another thing:

The Helghan Protectorate forms the first legally recognized Militia service that is not part of the direct ISA or UCN/UCA chain of command. They are small and lightly armed, performing only Customs, Police and ceremonial duties. Nevertheless the ISA views them as something of a challenge and threat and imposes strict limitations on their size and equipment. In addition all officers of the Helghan Militia are to be provided by the ISA.

The ISA saw the UCA as potential danger. Perhaps they were overreacting, but the fact remains that they were not part of the ISA or UCA.

The Helghan began to think themselves too big, now. Too good for the normal humans, it seems. They didn't think they should be bound by the laws of the UCN, and seceded.

Despite multiple attempts to negotiate a settlement the talks between the UCN and Earth fail to bring a mutually satisfactory resolution. Earth flat out demands compliance from the Helghan Administration and the Helghan Administration responds by formally seceding from the UCN, declaring itself an independent colony.

Finally, and I'm not saying this is right, the UCN decided the Helghan were too dangerous, and attacked. But it didn't stop there.

Helghan extremists begin a terrorist campaign in an attempt to make the occupation of Vekta too expensive for the ISA. Although the majority of Vektan Helghan simply want to live out their lives peacefully, sufficient numbers of the local populace assist the guerrilla movement to enable it to flourish. Bombings, ambushes and shootings against the UCN minority become more common - Vekta is no longer an innocent paradise.

Many of the Helghan simply wanted to live, but some of them turned to terrorism. They attacked the UCN, and the UCN had to fight back even harder.

Certainly, the ISA/UCA aren't entirely in the right here, but the Helghan did their fair share of bad things. Most of these, of course, started with Visari.

 

 

 

If the Helghan Corp didn't exist, there would be another company to take there place, the UCN COULD NOT AFFORD TO COLONIZE ALPHA CENTUARI, they lost Alpha Centuari the moment their colony ships got vaporized in an accident, too bad for the UCN but they would be in a worst position if Helgan Corp (and all other companies) decided not to buy the right to colonization as that would lead them with a much more costly delay in establishing space traffic- its not the Helghans fault at all and attacking your neighbour because you are jealous of their wealth is a pathetic excuse. The Helghan built their wealth according to UCN rules, what the UCN did was chuck a giant tantrum when they couldn't get everything their way despite writing the rule book.

The UCN was indeed short on cash, they had the big honkin spaceships and thousands of marines to drain their surplass (Oh the joy of tyranny! without your army what are you?) - remember ISA was locally funded, the UCN did not use their budget to protect their colonies, wtf are the using them for? researching bigger honkin spaceships and the weapon they use of course!.

The secession only happen after the UCN refuse to budge on revoking a right they previous sold to the Helghans for a big fat purse of credits, suprise! I want out of a institution that renegade on trade agreements!

You will also note that the UCN is taxing far more heavily than the Helghans to... wait for it... make bigger honkin spaceships and train thousands of more marines! (etc etc Tyranny blah blah).

With regards to terrorism, tell me, should the US start killing IRAQ citizens due to extremist faction? treat them as third class citizen and act like Mao era communist China? Look at the furor they caused around the world for their action in IRAQ right now and they are doing not 100th of what the UCN did on Vecta. 99% of Vecta's citizens were law abiding, even though the exile was not force, the choice was rather simple. Stay on Vecta and die out slowly, or move to Helghan and take their chances with starvation and unbreathable atmosphere.

Every single thing the Helghans did up until Visari was justified, even terrorism was a direct response to a force invading their homeland. Was it the French Resistence or the French Terrorist? Oh yeah! The French were on the winning side! (etc etc Tyranny blah blah).

By the way, there is a reason that almost every single working democracy answers to a civilian goverment. Because when the power of the state is given to the military, shit like this could happen.




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do you two actually expect anyone else to read this?



I will comment here by saying that the Helghast leader is cool, in my opinion. Well, cool as a character. Maybe he isn't a good guy, but the voice actor at least got me to want to learn more about the conflict involved, and dig into the history.

That, and the very dusty and apparently dismal state of Helghan environmentally, happened to lead me to wonder why anyone would invade the planet. I know that they invaded first, but the same can be said about Iraq. Anyhow, I posted this thread, and was told pretty much to STFU:
http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=56371&page=1

Graphics are great. You don't need a reason to be an invader, the graphics engine is all the justification you need. Now, reading this thread, I am wondering why anyone should want to invade Helghan again. And, does anyone who believes invading Helghan is ok, also support the U.S invasion of Iraq?

Ok, here we go, blowing this thread up into a completely political one.



terislb said:
do you two actually expect anyone else to read this?

I happened to actually.  I am also wondering what it says about the characters, when Sony felt the need to put the Helghast on the cover of KZ2 instead of the side you are fighting for.

 



because they are more appealing and unique.. not some other generic.. and bland good doing military force.. as ISA obviously is :).. the game is about the hellghast nobody is going to say "golly them isa sure looks interesting i should get more information on this game"

and i think it would be a little blunt to even compare the invasion of helghan with the invasion of iraq.. even writing this feels stupid..

but i do think that the whole thing may be some political comment... the good guys drive off the invaders and invade their planet to retaliate and "restore peace" but they turn out to be even worse because that planet they defended was never theirs in the first place because they took it from the hellghast ..who only became so militaristic and aggresive because of the ISA took vecta by force out of greed



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richardhutnik said:
I will comment here by saying that the Helghast leader is cool, in my opinion. Well, cool as a character. Maybe he isn't a good guy, but the voice actor at least got me to want to learn more about the conflict involved, and dig into the history.

That, and the very dusty and apparently dismal state of Helghan environmentally, happened to lead me to wonder why anyone would invade the planet. I know that they invaded first, but the same can be said about Iraq. Anyhow, I posted this thread, and was told pretty much to STFU:
http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=56371&page=1

Graphics are great. You don't need a reason to be an invader, the graphics engine is all the justification you need. Now, reading this thread, I am wondering why anyone should want to invade Helghan again. And, does anyone who believes invading Helghan is ok, also support the U.S invasion of Iraq?

Ok, here we go, blowing this thread up into a completely political one.

I haven't bothered to check the other thread you linked, but I think I already answered such a question before, don't know whether it was from you.

Why bother invading?  To eliminate a threat, to end a possible problem.  And if you have read the things those two have been posting, then you would've seen that the helghast planet is a hub planet, serving as a pathway across the galaxy, so leaving that in the hands of someone who has just attacked you in KZ1 is not a very smart move, so that's probably why they want control, regardless of the fact that the planet in itself may be quite desolate and boring.

 



Wow this is one of the best threads ever! Thanks to everyone for such an engaing discussion. Reading up on all of this and the back story really makes me sympathise with the Helghast a lot more. Here's to wishing for a parallel KillZone game spinoff only with you playing as a helghast protagonist. Yay!



 

It is better to die on one's feet

then live on one's knees

richardhutnik said:
I will comment here by saying that the Helghast leader is cool, in my opinion. Well, cool as a character. Maybe he isn't a good guy, but the voice actor at least got me to want to learn more about the conflict involved, and dig into the history.

That, and the very dusty and apparently dismal state of Helghan environmentally, happened to lead me to wonder why anyone would invade the planet. I know that they invaded first, but the same can be said about Iraq. Anyhow, I posted this thread, and was told pretty much to STFU:
http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=56371&page=1

Graphics are great. You don't need a reason to be an invader, the graphics engine is all the justification you need. Now, reading this thread, I am wondering why anyone should want to invade Helghan again. And, does anyone who believes invading Helghan is ok, also support the U.S invasion of Iraq?

Ok, here we go, blowing this thread up into a completely political one.

The ISA of Vecta needed to invade Helghan to pretty much kill one man. Visari is the driving force behind the revolution, with him dead, the ISA figure that the desire for war would loose steam, remember that they are in the same system, having a planet full of pissed of and warlike 'barbarians' just itching to slit your throat isn't anyone's idea of comfortable.

Aslo Helghan has vast amount of mineral resources,.

 




papflesje said:
richardhutnik said:
I will comment here by saying that the Helghast leader is cool, in my opinion. Well, cool as a character. Maybe he isn't a good guy, but the voice actor at least got me to want to learn more about the conflict involved, and dig into the history.

That, and the very dusty and apparently dismal state of Helghan environmentally, happened to lead me to wonder why anyone would invade the planet. I know that they invaded first, but the same can be said about Iraq. Anyhow, I posted this thread, and was told pretty much to STFU:
http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=56371&page=1

Graphics are great. You don't need a reason to be an invader, the graphics engine is all the justification you need. Now, reading this thread, I am wondering why anyone should want to invade Helghan again. And, does anyone who believes invading Helghan is ok, also support the U.S invasion of Iraq?

Ok, here we go, blowing this thread up into a completely political one.

I haven't bothered to check the other thread you linked, but I think I already answered such a question before, don't know whether it was from you.

Why bother invading?  To eliminate a threat, to end a possible problem.  And if you have read the things those two have been posting, then you would've seen that the helghast planet is a hub planet, serving as a pathway across the galaxy, so leaving that in the hands of someone who has just attacked you in KZ1 is not a very smart move, so that's probably why they want control, regardless of the fact that the planet in itself may be quite desolate and boring.

 

Yea seriously, read the conversation happening in this thread if you want your answer.

There's a lot going on in the story that explains it.

 



mibuokami said:
richardhutnik said:
I will comment here by saying that the Helghast leader is cool, in my opinion. Well, cool as a character. Maybe he isn't a good guy, but the voice actor at least got me to want to learn more about the conflict involved, and dig into the history.

That, and the very dusty and apparently dismal state of Helghan environmentally, happened to lead me to wonder why anyone would invade the planet. I know that they invaded first, but the same can be said about Iraq. Anyhow, I posted this thread, and was told pretty much to STFU:
http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=56371&page=1

Graphics are great. You don't need a reason to be an invader, the graphics engine is all the justification you need. Now, reading this thread, I am wondering why anyone should want to invade Helghan again. And, does anyone who believes invading Helghan is ok, also support the U.S invasion of Iraq?

Ok, here we go, blowing this thread up into a completely political one.

The ISA of Vecta needed to invade Helghan to pretty much kill one man. Visari is the driving force behind the revolution, with him dead, the ISA figure that the desire for war would loose steam, remember that they are in the same system, having a planet full of pissed of and warlike 'barbarians' just itching to slit your throat isn't anyone's idea of comfortable.

Aslo Helghan has vast amount of mineral resources,.

 

Yea, and even that can be used to a deadly effect by the Helghast. The lightning weapons are powered by the petrocite mineral that's found on the planet.