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Forums - General - VGC Poll: Religion

Slimebeast on 06 February 2009
WessleWoggle said:
Slimebeast said:
WessleWoggle,

But how can you limit yourself to observable reality? What if there is a reality outside of the observable reality?

I'm sure you can at least play with the thought that there could be such a reality. The simple example being that the world we experience and are able to measure is a simulation or an illusion, I'm sure you've heard that analogy. Another is that a god/supreme being created the world and rolled it into motion, but we can't necessarily trace the acts of the creator in it. Or we simply lack the technical ability to "know all", including how all that exists came to be.

I limit myself to observable reality because I believe that all forms of reality can be observed in one way or another.

I limit myself to the natural because I believe the supernatural is a natural process which has not been explained.

 

Well I believe that too. But everything might not be practically possible to observe by us.
If we're part of a perfect simulation created by an outside being/reality, you can not by definition observe the reality outside (just using that particular scenario as an example).

 



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blackstar on 06 February 2009
Strategyking92 said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
bigjon said:

The difference between Christianity and the other is our savior is a living savior.

Buhda = Dead

Muhamed = Dead

Joseph Smith = Dead

Krishna = Dead

Confusus = Dead

Jesus = Arisen

That there shows a difference, also if you study old testiment prophecy you will notice that not one of them has been wrong, many of them have already been fulfilled, some have not yet, but still will be.

For example the OT predicted the destruction of Jerusalem, The future empires that came and went (Nebecanezzer's dream), The Birthplace of jesus, He rejection amonst the Jews, his death, the means of his death, the Rebirth of Israel, and many many other things, that might help give you some faith if you studied Bible prophecy, the accuracy is amazing, actually supernatural.

You spelled Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius, and Nebuchadnezzar wrong.  And "amongst," but I hope that's a typo.

Confucius was a philosopher, not a savior.  Muhammad and Joseph Smith were prophets who founded new faiths after divine revelation, but aren't supernatural themselves.  In Buddhism, eternal life is not even the goal, so that comparison doesn't work.  The goal in Buddhism is to escape the cycle of life, which is a cycle of reincarnation and suffering.  And even then, calling Buddha "dead" is pretty tricky to do.  Krishna is a G-d, so I don't see how you're calling him dead.  It is believed that he doesn't age or deteriorate in any way.  Depending on your faith, Krishna is either the supreme being itself, or an avatar of Vishnu, the supreme being itself.

And when the Greco-Roman world was trading art, spices, and ideas with the Middle Eastern and Chinese cultures along the Silk Road, they borrowed many Buddhist ideas, and Christianity lifted these Buddhist ideas as well.

Do you actually know anything about other religions?

 

C mon, give him a break, nebucablahblah is hard to spell!

Anyway, muslims believe Christ was a prophet, and a great man , but not the son of god.

The anti christian writings extremists try to preach about aren't even there. The koran is cryptic, and that's why so much can be taken from it (I mean, it's a bunch of poems)

Abrahamists, why can't we all get along?

(this is right, isn't it?)

and he was never killed :)

"koran is cryptic" care to explain that more ?

not trying to argue here just wanna know what in people's minds =)

 



Slimebeast on 06 February 2009

A "verse bender" lol, funny. Never heard that phrase before.



Slimebeast on 06 February 2009
WessleWoggle said:
Slimebeast said:
A "verse bender" lol, funny. Never heard that phrase before.

 

I made it up because I forget what I call them usually...

But that's what they do!

 

 Yeah I'm well aware of the phenomenon unfortunately. I'm very much against it.

Anyways great phrase, I'll put it on my mind.



bigjon on 06 February 2009
WessleWoggle said:
bigjon said:
WessleWoggle said:
bigjon said:
WessleWoggle said:
bigjon said:

 

ok, I like the fact your open about it at least.

It just seems many atheist are more "zealous" about atheism, than religiuos people are in their religion. Like even in this thread, you dont see.

I am a christian, what any reason about person who does not want to burn in hell will be.

but you do see,

I am an atheist, with some sort of followup or whatnot.

 

As far as a supreme being goes, I think many people do not want to believe in a God because it limits their freedoms. If there is no god there is no moral authority except maybe the golden rule. That is why they dont want to believe in a God, it is not necessarily the reason they dont. To many it is illogical.

Personally I think both sides of the coin come down to faith. theist see the order of creation as a proof of a supreme being, athiest try to find science (most of the things they have come up with are faulty at best). Based on hard concrete evidence neither side has enough to prove their case. Christians have always known it comes down to faith, it is the same for many Athiest, they just dont know it.

Believing in god limits freedoms? No sir. When I believed in a God I didn't do anything different, because I had nothing different to do. It limited my freedoms in no way. When I was a christian I still a doper, and I still had gay thoughts, but as a christian I though I knew the will of God, which was peace, love, understanding, and balance.

Believing in God didn't limit any of my freedoms morally. All it did was limit my critical thinking skills.

Both sides of the coin do not come down to faith! This is a bullshit argument I've heard far too much.

I, as an atheist, believe in observable reality, nothing more. Theists and people of other religions, believe in things outside of obervable reality, which takes faith to believe in, because you cannot observe things outside of observable reality.

Atheism has nothing to do with science. I don't believe in everything science says, and nothing science teaches has anything to do with my non belief in things outside of observable reality. I only believe in the scientific process, which is, observe, test, and repeat. Science, is based on observable reality, which we can use the scientific process on. We cannot use the scientific process on anything outside of observable reality, and that's why theism is called faith, it's about something outside of obervable reality. Atheism is about rejecting the concept of God. Atheists can observe that there's no observable evidence for God, which means there's no observable reason to believe in god.

Observable reality is where the line is drawn when it comes to faith. Most atheists only believe in observable reality, where as theists believe in things outside of observable reality, that's why it's faith. Now that you have heard what I have to say on this issue do you still think atheism is based on faith? If so, why?

 

Since no one was there to observe the beginning of the earth do you believe nothing about it, dont you ever wonder how we got here?

We have nothing but theories and speculation about the begginning of the universe from a scientific perspective, and from a creationist perspective we have the Bible.

 

It's useless to wonder about things that currently have no explaination, mankind as a whole should not be caught up in wasting times on unobservable concepts like god, and should be focused on obervable concepts like happiness and peace.

Your second argument is redundant, the bible is also theorys and speculation, just much older, and it's only based upon the thoughts and feelings of men, rather than the scientific process.

 

 

That is your opinion. I consider the Bible to be inspired by God. It was written by 60 different human authors over 3 different contintents over a period of 2000 years, and yet is a cohesive work that never controdicts itself (people try to find controdictions, but always fail). The only explantion of this is a single divine author. Nothing in the Bible has ever been proven wrong, people chose not to believe many of the miracles but they cannot prove them wrong.

 

Not, that is not my opinion. It's observable reality. When you compare christianity to all other religions, they can't all be right. They are therefore either all delusions within the minds of men, or all false forms of some divine truth, because all religions are based upon older religions.

The bible never contradicts itself? Are you ignorant, or just a serious verse bender(a verse bender is someone who bends bible verses to make them all into somekind of cohesive metaphor)?

Nothing in the bible has been proven wrong? Now I know you're on better drugs than me.

Take a look here: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Check out contradictions and science sections.

Or, just google contradictions in the bible.

 

 

I have taken advanced theology courses, I have seen all of the "contradictions" people have brought against the Bible over the years. I can say that over 80% of them stem from people misundering standing the context of the bible or the nature of God.

A common one I hear for instance is in Job, when God promises to give Job back double what he took aways, but in the end he only was given back the same amount children. A Bible sceptic would see that and say either "HA God lied, the bible is false, yes!!! I got em um finally!!!"    But in order for the Bible to make sense you have to actually believe in it (does that makes sense). You see, if you believe the Bible you would know that his other children would join him in heaven.

And no I am not a person who reads things a "allusion" in order to make it "fit" I read it as literal and even if I dont understand it, I except it by faith. Now the Bible uses literary devices (especially in the Poetic books), you just have to be able to reconize them. Like, when the bible uses the Term "The Sword of the Lord" it is not referring to a literal sword. Most of the time it is Metonomy for something else, or even symbolism.



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highwaystar101 on 06 February 2009

I was born a Christian into a Christian family. But I was about five when I figured out that the bible was full of, how shall I put this, false data (no offense meant).

Nothing in that book should be taken literally, it's a very nice message and some very good stories, and the legitimacy of some is good. But over two thousands years it has been changed by people, lost translations, propaganda, never true in the first place and been taken too literally. It has to be questioned when you read it, if you explore the world outside the bible you see that a lot of it is very wrong.

I'm sorry if this sound offensive, I meant it in the nicest way.



bigjon on 06 February 2009

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

I read a few chapter from Psalms Genesis, and Luke. And LOL, reading this is like trying to follow a map made by a blind man. They have no clue or understanding.



End of 2009 Predictions (Set, January 1st 2009)

Wii- 72 million   3rd Year Peak, better slate of releases

360- 37 million   Should trend down slightly after 3rd year peak

PS3- 29 million  Sales should pick up next year, 3rd year peak and price cut

highwaystar101 on 06 February 2009

^ easy enough for me...

First Account (Genesis 1:1-2:3) Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25)

Genesis 1:25-27
(Humans were created after the other animals.)

And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.



Genesis 2:18-19
(Humans were created before the other animals.)

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


bwahaha



Strategyking92 on 06 February 2009
highwaystar101 said:
I was born a Christian into a Christian family. But I was about five when I figured out that the bible was full of, how shall I put this, false data (no offense meant).

Nothing in that book should be taken literally, it's a very nice message and some very good stories, and the legitimacy of some is good. But over two thousands years it has been changed by people, lost translations, propaganda, never true in the first place and been taken too literally. It has to be questioned when you read it, if you explore the world outside the bible you see that a lot of it is very wrong.

I'm sorry if this sound offensive, I meant it in the nicest way.

 

Because the best time to make important decisions is when you are five.



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highwaystar101 on 06 February 2009

Adam will die on the day that he eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam eats from the tree, yet lives another 930 years.

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.



Genesis 3:6
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food ... she took of the fruit therof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Genesis 5:5
And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

again lol