Well thanks for admitting that much. Some people are fanboys and what they say can't be helped. Killzone 2 games and GG games and valve games are almost mutually exclusive concepts. I don't see a point in comparisons.

granted you don't have to love valve but to state that they are just part of the "masses opinion" isn't accurate at all.  At the end of the day every one has their personal preference but Valve has put out tons of AAA games and are dedicated amazing developers.  Theres a reason people in the developing world look up to Gabe.  You don't have to like Michael Phelps but to say he's a bad swimmer is just dumb.

@ Cypher1980

So I don't like them = They are bad? If anything they're better off courting the masses than the niche. I don't insult things I don't know about so I never said valve were bad devs. Don't put words into my mouth.

I'll play your game:

John Carmack commented on his blog in 2004 that "there are still bits of early Quake code in Half-Life 2"^[33] and numerous development interfaces are similar to Quake's, at least at a high level - but with both easily likely of being Valve avoiding reinventing the wheel, neither are indicative of a notable reliance on the older engine. Given the fact that Source's 2003 code leak did not produce any such claims^{[citation needed]}, one assumption is that no incriminating evidence was to be found.

Any good developer knows that if you can avoid rewriting a piece of code that works fine, then you do it.

I'd like to comment on your Wii analogy. The way I see it, the Wii is of a higher quality than either HD console. So you pay more for less, basically. You say that what some people consider good may be different than others, yet in the same breath you give a flawed analogy like that. Hipocrisy is lovely.

no no no you misunderstand me or maybe i wasn't being clear. I'm not saying you think they are bad developers i know people read the comments so this was more addressed to everyone saying Valve isn't good not you neccessarily.  Though like I keep saying your way off base on the catering to the masses thing.  Have you ever played Portal?  Or Left 4 Dead's multiplayer?  They are innovative or entirely different from anything out there. If they wanted to cater they would make Space marines or JRPG's.  Thats the cool thing about Valve they are so original.

Hey, "one man's meat is another man's poison", "to each, his own..." pick whichever you prefer. Note how in my analogy I said I loved diesel jeans? So where did I say I hated levis or that they had no value? Not everyone is obssessed with console wars and not everything is an attack against your preference.

My "cater to the masses" comment was only aimed at the wii and is based on what I see  on TV and the fact that my mum actually bought one for my little brother and plans to buy wii fit.