John Lucas
"Time has run out for Sony."

That sounds like a wish far more than the truth. Come back in a year and if Sony no longer make consoles i will concede the point to you. but my educated guess says they will and it will be the PS3 which would make a statement like that utter bo***x!

Microsoft has attempted to have a balanced portfolio of games. However, it is basically known for Halo and Forza (first-party) -- an FPS and a racing simulator.

The last time I checked, the vast majority of the top 20 sellers on the 360 were third-party offerings -- which means they could be on any system (and usually are).

Plus, all those young kids whose parents bought them Wiis -- they will be looking for Nintendo next time out. Just remember that.

Mike from Morgantown

Really, 360 is more known for such things as Halo, Forza, AND(much more so then Forza) Gears of War, and Fable 2; an FPS, a TPS, Racer, and an RPG. I ask half the 360 owners at my school and they'd of course say Halo and Gears of War, then over half would say Fable, and then a small percentage of them would say Forza.

Scratch that, Forza probably isn't even on the list at all.

Those sellers are on the 360 for a reason. They COULD be on any console, just like a cat could learn how to fly if it could manipulate gravity. So that is quite true. And yes, they often will be on SOME console, or they mind as well don't exist :P

Chances are, most of those parents don't even know that Nintendo made the Wii. They don't know Microsoft mde the Xbox either. In any case, they aren't brand name specific like we are. If they see something next gen that they think they're kid would enjoy, whether it has Ninty on it or not, isn't gonna make a speck of difference for most people. There will be some parents who DO look for the Ninty on it though, but not even near the vast majority. Ninty would have a much better chance if they name continue the name of Wii, which is what people know it by.

This deep into the thread it is hard to add anything. thanks to all for the excellent discussion so far.

The Microsoft strategy was for 2 generations not 3. It only became 3 after it was obvious that the 360 was not going to win. I also find it odd that people are already assuming that the 360 is going to be profitable. It was 2 billion in the hole before things started turning around with Halo 3, and it has made a few hundred million since then. Overall profit is far from guaranteed, particularly if the money set aside for RROD is not enough.

The one good piece of news from this is that they will be on a much shorter leash for the next console. They will be forced to make something more reasonable and approachable. Their biggest struggle will be overcoming the stigma of RROD. This seems like a much larger concern than the supposed, unproven , but much lauded, gimmick factor of the Wii.

And for the poster who claimed Ubisoft doesn't make money on the Wii, Rayman would like to say hi. He would love to take his 3 million sellers to another publisher if they don't appreciate him.

What I do expect from Microsoft nect generation is more a 360 slimline. Much like the end of last gen when Sony push out a refined smaller package to increase the PS2 life. Yes Microsoft will put more power under the hood but mainly they will focus on interface much like they started with the recent update last fall. But alas shoehorning too many features will result in beta-this, patch-that, that consumers hate from their PC. This is something only Nintendo understands.

The 360 is already profitable.  It makes money every quarter.  They don't accumulate the losses/profits and have a tally at the end of the generation.  Whatever losses have already been written off. 

With regards to the stigma of the RROD, it hasn't effected them now and in fact most consumers aren't aware or feel that MS has eliminated the RROD.  For the most part it is a non issue. 

As long as the Xbox division is profitable they will continue to produce consoles with the goal of becoming the dominant console.  Yes, this generation is going to be won by Nintendo.  That doesn't mean its a total failure for MS.  They have something to build on for next generation.

Until Microsoft shows it is capable of figuring out the mass market this will never come to pass. Nintendo has more then once captured the mass market (NES, Wii, SNES kinda) by appealing to kids who in turn got some adults to play by creating the kind of meme that made it to the nightly news and increased exposure. Sony has more then once captured the mass market with the PS1 and PS2 mainly through later in the consoles life casual sales and again, by buzz from gamers and kids trickling into the main stream.

MS on the other hand has never shown at all that it can break through that wall and reach the main stream, its still the gamerboy box that sells pretty narrowly to gamerboys (I know all kinds of people who own a PS2 and/or a Wii but a VERY specific crowd owns the 360) which is why even with a huge price cut it can't sell mass market penetration numbers like the PS2 or the Wii (even at the lowest price point the 360 was well under half the Wii's sales or the PS2's sales when the PS2 was a few years old).

This isn't to say Sony will win again, who knows on that count, but it seems pretty clear that it will be Sony, Nintendo or a new third party entry from another company (maybe Apple if the iphone keeps taking off, they could leverage the already decent processor power of the apple TV or even the developer collaboration singular box from a EA/Activision/ect team that EA keeps talking about).

Basically Microsoft has never captured the publics imagination on any consumer products ever. Not Windows mobile, not the Zune, not the Xbox, not Surface...nothing. They just are not the kind of company that makes a consumer product that everyone wants to have and everyone talks about. When they come out with motion controls or free online or whatever they take from the PS3 or Wii Sony and Nintendo will come out with something better and revolutionary leaving MS fighting for 2nd with whoever the next runner up is again.

Fable is terrible, like really bad.

....ok?

So what you are saying is that even though they lost $2 billion on the 360, then in the last year and a half have made about $500 million in profit that it is a sucess? They may very well maek money this gen, that is yet to be proven. Explain to me why they would not total up all their losses and profits to see if thid gen was profitable. They might be fine either way but as the sales from their OS goes down you can bet there will be a limit to the blank check.

How do you know RROD hasn't affected them now? Are they wildly in first place of the console race? To be honest I think the sales are overinflated from the diehards who already have lots of games who choose to buy antoher 360.

I didn't say the gen was a total failure, but it remains to be seen. If they can learn to produce what the consumers want next gen, instead of focusing on what they think they the consumers want they have a chance.

No, you are quoting old numbers. The PS3 has been trending below the 360 for months, and we're on the threshhold of them selling LESS from launch. "By a large margin" or "consistently" is simply untrue, now.