I really wish this place had a better quoting function, but here it goes with what it's got:

Jetri said:

Microsoft knew the original Xbox was going to lose a lot of money. However, that is the cost of getting into the game industry. There are only a few companies that are capable of doing what Microsoft did. They wanted to get in it for the long run and didn't expect to make a profit at first. In fact, the press release announcing the xbox didn't even mention any profit incentives, they just wanted to have a box under your TV.

Had Microsoft actually done a half-decent job of planning for the long-run, then they would be in a much better position this generation instead of a distant second with only a marginal lead over the third-place console, which is exactly where they where last generation. So you see, they really aren't that much better off despite a year headstart and selling more consoles this generation than the previous generation. They may even end up with less overall market share.

Seeing as how Microsoft is not in the handheld business, that really isn't a concern to them.  I don't really understand why you posted this. Even if handhelds are the primary plaform in Japan, Microsoft is interested in having a device in your living room, not pocket. (I guess one could argue about the Zune and Windows mobile, but that is another topic)

Handhelds are as much a part of the video game market as home consoles. This is why Sega never could overcome Nintendo's presence in the market despite its successes with the Sega Genesis, and it's why Nintendo had a bigger presence in the market last gen despite Microsoft selling more home consoles(Nintendo sold more total consoles with 22 million Gamecubes and 80 million GBA's to 24 million Xboxes). Even this generation, Sony will have sold more total consoles than Microsoft, and hence will have had a larger impact on the market. Hell, look at it this way. If not for the DS, do you think the Wii would have anywhere near the level of success that it's enjoying right now?

Also, the reason the PSP is getting its behind handed to it by the DS is because Sony is the leading force behind it. If Nintendo or Microsoft owned the DS, it would have been a hit due to Nintendo's solid handheld strategy and Microsoft's checkbook. Not too big of a hit since people need time to adapt to all the functionality, but a hit nontheless. Wait until the DS2 and PSP2. Those consoles will have more multimedia features and people will embrace them.

I think you mean "had Microsoft owned the PSP." in any event, you're wrong as is evidenced by the fact that the 360 has proved largely ineffective at stopping or even slowing the Wii, so the idea that they could have done anything to the DS is just silly.

Lord N, try typing [ quote ] then copy/paste here [/ quote ], only without the spaces in the brackets.

@john lucas

What do you mean by "when Sony fades"?...no PS4, you mean?

I meant exactly what I said.

Sony's about to leave the videogame business. There will not be a PS4 nor a PSP 2.

The PS3 fiasco has cost them greatly and with the global decline of economics, they can't afford to be in this fight anymore with competitors like greenbacked Microsoft & most likely Apple showing up.

The industry can't sustain too many major competitors at once. Sony is headed toward the road of restructuring & that MAY mean abandoning the videogaming business.

Remember it was Ken Kutaragi who begged & pleaded with his corporate superiors to get into the VG biz with Nintendo in the 1980s. It was Ken Kutaragi with a higher up's blessing that kept the PlayStation project alive after Nintendo's contract swerve at the CES in 1991 with Phillips. And with Ken's vision & the PlayStations' record success over the past nearly 15 years, Sony stayed in a business they once thought to be a childish fad.

With Ken Kutaragi gone, the PSP not fulfilling its mission against Nintendo's handhelds ALONG with the PS3's poor performance & budget wrecking effects (2008 was last year for PS3 to turn it around), Sony might not have the taste to remain in this business anymore.

Their whole success was bedrocked upon 3rd party support. Sony's systems didn't sell because of hometown efforts for the most part. They sold because of the 3rd party developers who showcased themselves on that system. This whole 3rd party set up was forged BECAUSE of Nintendo's (Yamauchi's Nintendo) treatment of the 3rd parties. Nintendo was Dad & the 3rd parties were The Kids. And The Kids got tired of Dad's mandates & commands so they moved of Dad's house to move in with Uncle Sony who let them do what they wanted to do. But Uncle Sony got a little lax with the upkeep of his grounds (and oh those drug-filled wild parties: 599 U.S. dollars!) & eventually The Kids were forced to make a decision whether to stay with their irresponsible Uncle, move in with his Rich Neighbor Microsoft (MoneyStacks to his friends) down the street, or come back home to Dad's yard hoping he's less uptight than before (Iwata's Nintendo).

You're seeing this decision being made in real time right now. 2009 will show where The Kids ultimately go. The Kids are moving out of Unc's house and into the Rich Neighbor's house but some of them have already moved into Dad's pool house (DS). Dad's making amends & asking The Kids to come back home. How the Rich Neighbor got his Money Stacks may ultimately do The Kids harm & Dad's always looking out for their best interest even if he comes off heavy handed at times.

3rd parties leaving Sony as an afterthought is the death knell. The 3rd party establishment may still prefer XBox 360 right now but watch as this year progresses. The Wii platform will begin to look better & better to them. When that happens even Microsoft will be taken aback. 2009's fight is between Microsoft & Nintendo & if Nintendo beats Microsoft in this aspect, it's even worse for Sony than if the reverse happened. Because Nintendo's market philosophy will revamp & revolutionize how it's all done effectively killing the approaches championed by MS & Sony these past few years.

2 systems fighting over a dead market approach? Ain't gonna happen. Microsoft will either adapt or die with Sony in the VG biz while Nintendo reorients the reluctant 3rd party companies on how it's going to be done.

I said it time & time again in many places on the internet: 1st party + 2nd party + 3rd party = Nintendo's Party

Who dares to stop them once they achieve this power? You need some funds to come up with something to stop this imaginative company. The only ones I can see so far who have this power is Microsoft & Apple. And since raw tech ain't the way anymore what are these companies going to create? Lots of R&D funds to figure out what to do if you don't wanna be old hat and dead out of the gate.

If December 2008 didn't help Sony, nothing will. It all declines from this point forward. PS2 is nearly 9 years old & about to join the Hall of Fame with NES, SNES, Genesis, and other obsolete systems. PSP is not going to get better after 4 years on the market performing like this. And the PS3 will REALLY see pain when that price is matched up against all these layoffs/cutbacks going around in every part of the country, in every part of the world. They can't price cut without putting themselves even deeper in debt. And any price cut made can be trumped by another one from money-flush Microsoft on the various 360 models. Price cuts didn't save Gamecube anyway so sometimes it's a gamble to do it.

It's over & it's up to Sony whether they want to risk it all for another round. Their record-selling days of the past decade & a half didn't bring them matching profits. That was because how their business model was designed (software sales to cover hardware losses). In days of plenty, they made a little money. In days of drought, they're losing billions.

Since they're not inherently attached to the business like Nintendo, they can jettison it & focus on another of their many pies to restart their influence.

2009 will be last year of the PS3.

John Lucas

"I said it time & time again in many places on the internet: 1st party + 2nd party + 3rd party = Nintendo's Party

Who dares to stop them once they achieve this power?"

Nintendo themselves?....like they did during the SNES-N64 transition...but will probably occur for different reasons.

And you see SCE selling their franchises?....exterminating them altogether?

Theres a few things people need to understand..

1.MS did NOT want HD-DVD built in why? Slow disc read speeds = mandatory installs,that means built in HDD,that means higher console price.

2.They picked Xenos cause its easy to program for and any dev will make the game for the console and they wont go to the PS3 cause its way to hard to program for and the Cell even if its stronger wont be able to run at full strenght cause its limited RAM.

3.Dont beleive the hype about the Cell till you start seeing results,most people are brainwashed to believe that the Cell is the best Console CPU out today.

Well of course. That's what usually happens with absolute power. But that will be a story for a distant day.

Yep. Selling off SCE's franchises. Maybe the teams will remain with the company being renamed, maybe not.

Could be Microsoft who buys them. Wouldn't be too surprising actually.

John Lucas

john, since you seem to know so much about Nintendo´s history and all.....tell me, is Iwata a better CEO than Yamauchi was, in your opinion?

John Lucas:

Theres no proven link between handhelds and consoles hooked up to the TV. You can excel at one and fail at the other as the Gamecube proved. Nintendo's future in the home console business is not ensured by their success with their handheld business aside from one being a financial safety net to the other. If there was a strong link the Nintendo Gamecube would have done far better than it did in actuality.

You mention feature creep as protecting Nintendos handheld business, however I doubt that is actually the case. The important consideration which keeps both a handheld gaming console and a cellular phone in the pockets of users around the world is not due to having too many features overcomplicating the device, its due to having too little battery life to perform both functions. It is a great inconvenience for people to run out of power on their cellular phone and a lesser one for them to run out of power on their gaming device. Remember the little game called Snake? Its probably one of the most successful games of all time and its one of the reasons why Nokia is the cellular phone powerhouse it is today. Once battery and phone technology improves sufficiently the dominance of Nintendo with handhelds becomes threatened by the Cell phone.

For the home consoles, no company has a manifest destiny. Nintendo made a strong move with the Wii, however it should also be considered a dangerous one. They have cracked open entire realms of possibility for the future of the console and in doing so they have given their competition the chance to blindside them in return. Both Sony and Microsoft have reasons to explore alternative interface methods from within and outside of their respective gaming enterprises. For Sony its the power of their televisions and media operations and Microsoft its their operating system and service operations. Nintendos snake in the grass is their conflict of interest between their 1st party software and hardware business to the opportunities that exist outside of their control. The crux of the issue for them is a company which is able to take advantage of strategic partnerships and let go of full control which is something they have been unwilling to do and was the source of their first fall.

Well, Iwata's helming of that company was very short compared to the 53 years Yamauchi ran the show.

I'll definitely say Iwata's less warlike (at least on the surface) than Yamauchi which keeps him from making the kind of errors that Yamauchi did in the 1990's. Yamauchi knows a lot about the business & the edge he had is actually because he DOESN'T play videogames. That's how he could tap into to what other people who don't play games would like, he's one of those other people.

Yamauchi had the foresight to hire good talent which is why he brought Gunpei Yokoi off of a playing card assembly line & into product design. He knew to hire Shigeru Miyamoto & he knew the right lawyers to get to keep the company alive when the Donkey Kong lawsuit with Universal was going on in 1982. He knew to turn his business into more than playing cards which allowed for all this to happen in the first place.

Yamauchi had his faults but he knew how to run a company & a lot of stuff he said about the business was true. Hell, the fact that he picked Iwata as his successor shows good judgment in itself, don't ya think?

Iwata's doing an excellent job in continuing the Nintendo legacy & the fact that Yamauchi chose him speaks once again to his excellent vision as a CEO.

With accumulated accomplishments, there's no doubt it's Yamauchi.

John Lucas