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Forums - Gaming - Why 3rd party publishers "ignore" the Wii

Onyxmeth said:

Groucho, I couldn't read the whole thing because I'm lazy at the moment, but from what I gathered you pointed out something I've thought of myself. Basically the Wii is scattered across more demographics so even with more consoles sold, there is less selling potential for certain genres and games. I do agree, but as the console grows, I think those demographics will fill in as time goes on.

I don't know if you mentioned this, but this may be why the Wii has sold more software than the 360 but has considerably less million sellers. There is more room to attract decent sales out of most games, but less room to attract big numbers in most of them.

I agree completely.  WIth larger numbers of Wii titles, but fewer big hits, the overall Wii development costs (for the publishers) go up, and the profits don't rise by as much.

I think this effect often causes certain genres to gravitate toward particular platforms, due to early performance patterns.

 



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Soriku said:
Oh come on...a Wii JRPG's cost can't be compared to an HD one.

You can't compare costs of ToS: DotNW to ToV.

Can't compare ARF and White Knight Chronicles.

Can't compare Kizuna to Lost Odyssey.

There's really no comparison between Wii costs and HD costs.

@Onyx

Actually...that makes a lot sense. Let's take the 360 for example. It's focused on FPS and WRPGs and those sell really well, but others like JRPGs may not. On the other hand, the Wii is spread out and fans of FPS and probably WRPGs have migrated to the 360. Though that still doesn't mean existing Wii owners can't buy those games. But the Wii's demographic is so spread out and it can't sell every game at large numbers because of that. In turn though, the Wii has legs.

I don't understand.  WHy do you think making a WIi JRPG would be cheaper than making a HD JRPG?

Do you know that 3D art is usually downsized (and has been for the past decade) to fit on the platform in question, and that downsizing to 91MB is harder than downsizing to 512 MB?  Do you know that a large portion of the engineering expense for games like FPSs are spent on framerate/performance -- something most JRPGs are designed to not have to tackle?  Presentation in JRPGs is often in the form of voice acting and pre-rendered cutscenes.  Do you think it would have cost Disney/Pixar less money to make Wall-E, just because they figured they wouldn't have to print Blu-Ray copies later?  Do you think they would have made the movies crappier, or put less work into them?

HD JRPGs are not harder to make than Wii JRPGs.  If you want to claim that FF 13, and its level of presentation is typical of JRPGs, I think you're... mistaken.



Why?

one word:

Stupidity



If it isn't turnbased it isn't worth playing   (mostly)

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For Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti. -----The Boondock Saints

Soriku said:
Because...they look much much better and graphics pull up the costs?

If HD JRPG costs as much as Wii ones we wouldn't see games like FF XIII going multiplatform.

Wut.



The reason why HD console graphics are more expensive to develop is you require more "Content" for every in game asset in order to feed the advanced shaders with data, and you require more graphical assets to fill an environment in order to make it look less sterile and empty.



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Soriku said:
Because...they look much much better and graphics pull up the costs?

If HD JRPG costs as much as Wii ones we wouldn't see games like FF XIII going multiplatform.

You're over-simplifying the problem.  Better graphics do not necessarily up the costs by themselves.  Technologically advanced graphics do, but "better" doesn't at all.  Sometimes the opposite.

Any 3D artist will tell you how much easier it is to make a scene, or model, look awesome, at high detail, in Maya/Max/etc. than it is to get it dumbed-down and looking good in-game.

 



HappySqurriel said:

The reason why HD console graphics are more expensive to develop is you require more "Content" for every in game asset in order to feed the advanced shaders with data, and you require more graphical assets to fill an environment in order to make it look less sterile and empty.

 

So... you would enjoy a JRPG less on a HD console, even if all that changed was that the resolution was increased, and perhaps the textures were higher rez? (source textures usually are -- they're harder to make smaller not larger)

 

Does Banjo Kazooie look better or worse on the X360 than it did on the N64?  I have both versions.  The source art is the same... and it looks way better on the 360, in my opinion.  Art is not the difference in development costs, and JRPGs are primarily about art, not technology.



Groucho said:
HappySqurriel said:

The reason why HD console graphics are more expensive to develop is you require more "Content" for every in game asset in order to feed the advanced shaders with data, and you require more graphical assets to fill an environment in order to make it look less sterile and empty.

 

So... you would enjoy a JRPG less on a HD console, even if all that changed was the resolution, and perhaps the textures were higher rez? (source textures usually are)

 

Actually, I'm of the opinion that most developers should do that because they simply can't afford to produce the content with the sales they can expect from their game ... Unfortunately, being that I see HD fanboys (essentially) claim that not pushing graphical technology to the limits is an insult to gaming, I’m not too sure if you could be successful on the HD consoles unless you produce the most technically advanced graphics.



Soriku said:
Better graphics = Higher detail = Higher costs

Sorry.  You're just plain wrong here, unless you include an extra technological component, which isn't necessary in a JRPG.  Every dev studio I've worked at in the past 15 years produced way higher quality source art than the game art ended up as -- its standard procedure.

 



Nope. Source textures are usually real-life samples, taken from very high rez photo sources. They are photoshop'd some and then downsized to fit within the console's texture memory budget.

3D modelling tools generate loads and loads of polygons. The newbie artists make the models, and then the experienced (read: expensive) artists tone them down to fit them on the console in question.  The smaller the console's memory budget, or poly performance budget... the harder (not easier) it is to make it look decent.

Making 3D art is an art form, and the more expansive your canvas is, the easier, not harder, it is to make something look good.

 

3D rendering technology -- i.e. using all the fancy shaders, etc. available on the newest platforms, it where the expense comes in.  I suppose you could claim that any JRPG which pushed performance limits definately would cost more, thanks to additional engineering expenses, mostly.  But... JRPGs are not usually that advanced.  They are story telling mediums, not twitch games.

Very well suited for the Wii, although not necessarily cheaper to make for the Wii, especially if you go nuts with production value, like S-E is with FF XIII.  They could do that on the Wii too, if they wanted, but they won't at this point.  They'd have to make a whole new Wii engine, which, as I stated, is the majority of expense in a port.  That and crazy production costs would perhaps, be unjustified.  Are there any multi-disc Wii games yet?  I have never seen one.