Stating incorrect facts?  So you think it's Brawl and Galaxy that can take credit for the Wii's success?  If that's the case why didn't the Gamecube  dominate last gen with those series?  The Wii completely destroys Gamecube sales in an astonighingly short time and you don't think a big part of that is due to the motion controller killer app Wii Sports?  I don't remember Brawl on Oprah.  I don't remember Brawl or Galaxy being the media darling that Wii Sports is.  Do you think the motion controls take Brawl to the next level?  Are they even the best input device to use for that game?  Seriously this stuff isn't rocket science and it doesn't take a PhD to figure it out.

By the way what do you have against sentences?  Seriously why not do everyone a favor and use them.

c0rd said: Legend11 said: Grampy, On a console where Carnival Games, Game Party, Deca Sports, Smarty Pants, and others trounce most third-party hardcore games on the system why in your opinion should they take more risk, spend more money, and go against what is selling for third-parties on it? On a system where Wii Sports and Wii Play completely dominate sales and are very likely the reason why many people buy the console why do you feel developers should instead make games that the majority never bought the console for? Mario Kart Wii Nintendo 13.42m Super Smash Bros. Brawl Nintendo 8.26m Super Mario Galaxy Nintendo 7.81m The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo 5.07m Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock RedOctane 3.86m Super Paper Mario Nintendo 2.66m Sonic and the Secret Rings Sega 2.04m These are far from "mini-game" games, and they have done very well. There just aren't that many other popular games on the system like this, so the ones that have sold very high (2mil+) are few in number.

Nintendo games are an exception on the Wii (do you think if another company made a Kart game for the Wii that it would have over 12 million in sales)?  Do you think if EA or Ubisoft released Wii Music that it would be over 2 million right now?  Also correct me if I'm wrong but I think this "open letter" was to third-parties, but if it was meant for Nintendo then my bad.  And when looking at third-party games the number of casual hits outnumber the hardcore ones.

its the controller point blank period, i know what i did see on Oprah the wii controller the system seller, brawl or galaxy still sold millions without a bundled controller those are the only games on the wii of there kind to sell that much which is because they have a bundled controller, u still have yet to show me the game that sells like wiisports or wiiplay that sells well without a bundled controller, i can show u two games like grampy described that sold at least 7 million without a bundled controller brawl and galaxy

f.y.i u should be able to read

sonic, guitar hero, and rockband have all outsold every casual game on the system and those are third party right instead of saying what u think state facts

for example

its a fact u r a troll

its a fact that no casual game on the wii has out sold guitar hero, sonic, or rockband all third party

Legend11 said: c0rd said: Legend11 said: Grampy, On a console where Carnival Games, Game Party, Deca Sports, Smarty Pants, and others trounce most third-party hardcore games on the system why in your opinion should they take more risk, spend more money, and go against what is selling for third-parties on it? On a system where Wii Sports and Wii Play completely dominate sales and are very likely the reason why many people buy the console why do you feel developers should instead make games that the majority never bought the console for?   Mario Kart Wii Nintendo     13.42m     Super Smash Bros. Brawl Nintendo     8.26m     Super Mario Galaxy Nintendo     7.81m   The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo   5.07m   Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock RedOctane   3.86m   Super Paper Mario Nintendo   2.66m   Sonic and the Secret Rings Sega 2.04m These are far from "mini-game" games, and they have done very well. There just aren't that many other popular games on the system like this, so the ones that have sold very high (2mil+) are few in number. Nintendo games are an exception on the Wii (do you think if another company made a Kart game for the Wii that it would have over 12 million in sales)?  Do you think if EA or Ubisoft released Wii Music that it would be over 2 million right now?  Also correct me if I'm wrong but I think this "open letter" was to third-parties, but if it was meant for Nintendo then my bad.  And when looking at third-party games the number of casual hits outnumber the hardcore ones.

You've made whatever point you were making and it's been responded to. Everything you've said could be as easily used agains LBP - too what purpose. What you insist on calling casual really means ANYthing not targeted specifically for High School college age males. They do not make up a majority of the population and they probably no longer make up a majority of gamers.

I haven't seen the Hannah Montana game, don't really plan to because I doubt it was written for me and i probably wouldn't enjoy it.  I can also tell you tha GTA4 was just as certainly not written for me and I find the game boring, offensive and in particularly bad taste.

I think the young male demographic deserves ample representation in video games but I do no longer accept that their taste are the only criteria to make a game "non-casual."

In any case i'm sure we can rely on the developers to choose the types of games and whether they can make a profit. If they just keep imitating what's out there they will FAIL.

Now I'd politely ask you to quit this thread unless you have something new to add. If you do have anything new to contribute please do, but try to express yourself less belligerently and you won't provoke a hostile answer. A question or criticism is always valid. When it's made over and over in a manner that seems designed to just piss people off, then it does look like trolling.

Legend11 said: c0rd said: Legend11 said: Grampy, On a console where Carnival Games, Game Party, Deca Sports, Smarty Pants, and others trounce most third-party hardcore games on the system why in your opinion should they take more risk, spend more money, and go against what is selling for third-parties on it? On a system where Wii Sports and Wii Play completely dominate sales and are very likely the reason why many people buy the console why do you feel developers should instead make games that the majority never bought the console for? Mario Kart Wii Nintendo 13.42m Super Smash Bros. Brawl Nintendo 8.26m Super Mario Galaxy Nintendo 7.81m The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo 5.07m Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock RedOctane 3.86m Super Paper Mario Nintendo 2.66m Sonic and the Secret Rings Sega 2.04m These are far from "mini-game" games, and they have done very well. There just aren't that many other popular games on the system like this, so the ones that have sold very high (2mil+) are few in number. Nintendo games are an exception on the Wii (do you think if another company made a Kart game for the Wii that it would have over 12 million in sales)?  Do you think if EA or Ubisoft released Wii Music that it would be over 2 million right now?  Also correct me if I'm wrong but I think this "open letter" was to third-parties, but if it was meant for Nintendo then my bad.  And when looking at third-party games the number of casual hits outnumber the hardcore ones.

Your original comment said the main reason people buy the system was for things like Wii Sports, Wii Play, so there may not be an audience for core titles. My response was to show you otherwise - that games do not have to be mini-game collections in order to sell. The fact that the games are made by Nintendo has nothing to do with the argument.

As for "casual" hits outnumbering the "hardcore" hits, that's obvious - the former games far outnumber the latter. It's not as if there were many potential "hardcore" million sellers released for the Wii as it is. Would No More Heroes or Zack & Wiki be million sellers on the HD consoles? How about Okami? Oh, wait - that game already flopped on the PS2.

Nice way of jumping on Legend guys. Let me repeat what he tried to say.


Why would third party spend more money to create bigger games when they don't have to in order to make a profit?

It's really a matter on if they think they can make the same amount of money with the same number of people but in a shorter timeframe.

It's goign to take another couple of years to see if that expectation plays out, though.

There is really no need to try and discuss this issue with Legend, his post history speaks for its self. He is definitely one of those people out there who feels threatened by the Wii and its philosophies, its best to leave him be, give it time he will not have any ground to stand on, though id argue he has barely anything to stand on.

This is another great thread Grampy, i always find your posts very insightfully. Though the Japanese developers seem to be jumping on the Wii development, i doubt we will see a lot of western devs jump on it too soon, look at the DS, i can barely think of a western dev game worth owning (except broken sword, which will be coming out soon :p)

I would argue that wii sports has infact has a much much larger impact on the wii success the any other game on the console. The wii line of games has only further emphasised this.

It'll be interesting to see how wii sports resort sells.

because bigger games sale on the system as well

redsteel, rockband, resident evil 4, and guitar hero aren't very small games and neither r there sales

do u own a wii