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Forums - Sales - Unpopular predictions for Sony's 2009

NJ5 said:

Now that the holiday quarter is over, we can finally look back at the average exchange rates and information on electronics demand during the recession which is starting. To put it simply, a lot of the positive and negative factors are out of Sony's control, so there is some uncertainty for 2009 as a whole. Nevertheless, I'm willing to put down some predictions.

Here's the info:

The $ to yen conversion rate ended the year at 90.8, down from 105.3 at the beginning of the quarter and 111.4 yen at the beginning of 2008.

The € to yen conversion rate ended the year at 126.7, down from 148.8 at the beginning of the quarter and 162.7 at the beginning of 2008.

(source 1, source 2)

Preliminary information about dropping electronics demand due to the recession can be found below:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/22/business/22yen.php

Based on this information and some more things posted below, my Sony predictions for 2009 are:

1- Despite all the doom and gloom, the PS3 will not be discontinued because SCE will play things smartly.
2- Sony posts a significant loss for the holiday quarter due to the strong Yen and weak electronics demand. A rather safe prediction is a $1.5+ billion loss. More than $2.5 billion in losses wouldn't surprise me either (see note below)
3- No later than April, Sony announces more cost-cutting measures (such as layoffs and/or discontinuing weak products).
4- Sony doesn't cut PS3's price in NA/EU before October 2009 in the company wide push for profitability. SCE doesn't want Sony's higher ups and investors breathing down its neck.
5- The Yen may start to weaken in a few months (due Japan's Central Bank efforts), but Sony will still struggle to post significant profits before the company is significantly restructured due to a worsening business environment throughout the year.

 

Note: The predictions about Sony's profit/loss are calculated from Sony's typical holiday quarter revenue (around $30 billion) and profit margins, a 18% average drop in the dollar/euro, and Sony's CFO declarations on the impact of currency hedging. All in all a rather simply calculated number, but it seemed to work well when I tried it for previous quarters. There could of course be some extraordinary items in the quarter interfering with these numbers (either up or down).

 

 

There are two things that I think would help make your estimate more accurate.

1) The semi-conductor industry (much like oil) prices everything in dollars and hence Sony's losses per console is probably going to depend more on the ratio between the euro and the dollar. The recent near-run on the pound might also significantly affect the numbers if only because of how rapidly it has deteriorated. I should note that I would expect this to increase the predicted losses, but im not certain.

2) The bottom has fallen out of the electronics industry as you noted, however this has also had the effect on putting massive downward pressure on producers further up the supply chain lowering Sony's input costs.



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NJ5 said:
blazinhead89 said:
The 45 Nm RSX is meant to be implemented soon i think, so im sure Sony are finding ways to cut production costs.

It seems production will begin in 2009, which is definitely good news. Even considering that I don't think they'll want to cut prices early in the year.

An early $100 price cut would be very surprising to me, a $50 price cut less so. If the yen doesn't weaken I'd be very surprised by both.

 


Sony have to weigh the Pros and cons up. IF They were to drop the price Q1, would the extra software sales and accesory sales make up for the loss they are making on selling the PS3? I m not sure, The balls in Sony Court atm. Its decision Time.

The only contentious point I see is the predicted date of October for a price cut. I think the 45nm cell/55nm rsx would be in production before then or even an emergence of a 'slim' model allowing greater cost savings, which should be passed onto the consumer asap.

If they wait until October and keep the status quo, I can see the 360 averaging 60k more per week (not unreasonable, considering the 300-400k differences this holiday) - so by october (44 weeks) x 60k = 2.64million. That would be ~10.5 million lead that the 360 has over the PS3, which would probably cost Sony more than cutting the price with the loss of third party support. The Valhalla chipset would probably be ready for production in the 360 by that timeframe as well so price cuts in tandem = status quo remains unchanged.

So I'm predicting a price cut before October and be completely unoriginal and go with the 'leaked' report and Pachter and say March-April.



alephnull said:

 

There are two things that I think would help make your estimate more accurate.

1) The semi-conductor industry (much like oil) prices everything in dollars and hence Sony's losses per console is probably going to depend more on the ratio between the euro and the dollar. The recent near-run on the pound might also significantly affect the numbers if only because of how rapidly it has deteriorated. I should note that I would expect this to increase the predicted losses, but im not certain.

2) The bottom has fallen out of the electronics industry as you noted, however this has also had the effect on putting massive downward pressure on producers further up the supply chain lowering Sony's input costs.

Thanks for the interesting comments :)

1- That could be right, the reason why I didn't base my estimates on that is that I don't have any good data on it, or even an indication from Sony's declarations that it matters a lot. The pound as you said is just a disaster for any company selling a lot in UK (fortunately it's not as big a territory as the US or the € zone).

2- Frankly I didn't use the falling electronics demand much for my (rather conservative IMO) predictions regarding losses. I regarded it more as a safety cushion in case their currency hedging is not that well portrayed by the CFO's statements. What you mention should also be a mitigating factor though.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

I am certain (yes CERTAIN) the PS3 will have a price cut in Japan before Q3. There are many hardcore gamers in Japan and they get games first day, FFXIII releases this year with SF4 and Yakuza 3 next month. Add on RE5 as well and GT5 that is some serious amount of software sales.

Japan would hit Sony the least in terms of losing another $100 because it is the smallest region but it will give them massive gains thanks to such strong software sales coming this year.



 

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blazinhead89 said:
The 45 Nm RSX is meant to be implemented soon i think, so im sure Sony are finding ways to cut production costs.

Switching to a high-k and metal gate process was probably more important to cost reduction than 45nm, however everyone other than intel is having problems.

 



colonelstubbs said:
Did anyone really think sony would give up on the ps3? Anyone?


I do... Sony will report a loss in the BILLIONS of dollars!!

 

I'm not saying it will happen, but I do believe in the possibility. You can bet some number cruncher at Sony HQ has done the math to see their chances of them becoming profitable this generation.

 

Edit: my New Year's Eve resolution should be to proof read what I write.. at least once!!

 



Proud Member of GAIBoWS (Gamers Against Irrational Bans of Weezy & Squilliam)

                   

Drop a £300 console even without seeing how it goes at £200? Yeah people just want the PS3 to fail but sadly for them know the console will not be discontinued.



 

NJ5

These are all predictions about Sony as a whole, but what about the Gaming division? What do you predict for example the Holiday quarter, how much loss/profit?



RPG said:
I think a $100 price cut will come sooner rather then later simply due to software. These gaming companies make the majority of there cash from software are accessories and to play PS3 games you need........a PS3.

The 360 has fantastic software sales and must be making up for the price cut last year, Sony need to follow suit.

 

A $100 pricecut means that they'll have to sell around 12 3rd party games or around 3-4 first party games EXTRA to earn the same amount of money. PS3's attach rate is something between 5 and 6 games per system, so the $100 pricecut is not earned back very soon.