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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Does anyone think Sony will pull the plug on the PS3 or PSP?

Hus on 14 August 2007
Bodhesatva said:
Hus said:
Not gonna answer are you.

Ugh, I was trying to ignore you for Tak's sake, but apparently you just can't help being foolish. It's a little difficult to believe that you can see the complete financial data for Sony, with a rather detailed breakdown of it, and then retort "RSX and 65 nm will save them!" Sony is bleeding billions of dollars, and they just cut the price of the PS3 in a desperate attempt to spark interest in the system. I cannot imagine how you expect a 1.2 billion dollar a year defecit (Which is what their Q1 Fiscal Report projects to), which is an increase in losses from the same time last year, and suddenly expect regular reductions in production cost to magically stop this bleeding. You provide no evidence, no fiscal projections of any kind, nor even any analysis on precisely how much money the RSX and 65 nm chips will save them on a per-system basis. You do not factor in any other subsidiary costs such as the EU bundles, the costs of software development, the costs of advertising, the costs of third party development (you are aware that Sony is sending additional to help to Epic, among others, to assist in the difficult PS3 development process, correct?), and any other costs. You give no quantifiable evidence at all, while I linked the entirety of Sony's fiscal report for the last decade.


And your numbers sure as hell dont show that 65 nono Cell and Rsx will not take then out of the red. 

So your "no end in sight" is nothing more then opinion.

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/story/6929/

So the end is in sight, thats my whole point. 



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quigontcb on 14 August 2007

Takashi, you keep asking what things would be like if the PS3 were priced at $400 like the 360... Well for one thing, Sony would be losing even more money than they already are. They'd have to hope that all of the people buying the console would be buying a crapload of games to offset the losses that they would be adding to their considerable losses they are already getting. Of course there are other things to be considered, like establishing their dominance in the HD-DVD/Blu Ray war. In the end Sony would love to be able to magically sell the PS3 for 400 bucks, but it's just not that simple.

About the "Sony's got a 10 year plan for the PS3" argument, that just won't work if the console never takes off. It's a fine idea IF the PS3 becomes a viable console.

Back on topic: Sony won't be pulling the plug on the PS3 anytime soon(plenty of time left for it to grow, BR agenda, Cell agenda) or the PSP(it did rescue us all from the portable gaming ghetto after all...).



"I feel like I could take on the whole Empire myself."

Bodhesatva on 14 August 2007
Hus said:
Bodhesatva said:
Hus said:
Not gonna answer are you.

Ugh, I was trying to ignore you for Tak's sake, but apparently you just can't help being foolish. It's a little difficult to believe that you can see the complete financial data for Sony, with a rather detailed breakdown of it, and then retort "RSX and 65 nm will save them!" Sony is bleeding billions of dollars, and they just cut the price of the PS3 in a desperate attempt to spark interest in the system. I cannot imagine how you expect a 1.2 billion dollar a year defecit (Which is what their Q1 Fiscal Report projects to), which is an increase in losses from the same time last year, and suddenly expect regular reductions in production cost to magically stop this bleeding. You provide no evidence, no fiscal projections of any kind, nor even any analysis on precisely how much money the RSX and 65 nm chips will save them on a per-system basis. You do not factor in any other subsidiary costs such as the EU bundles, the costs of software development, the costs of advertising, the costs of third party development (you are aware that Sony is sending additional to help to Epic, among others, to assist in the difficult PS3 development process, correct?), and any other costs. You give no quantifiable evidence at all, while I linked the entirety of Sony's fiscal report for the last decade.


And your numbers sure as hell dont show that 65 nono Cell and Rsx will not take then out of the red.

So your "no end in sight" is nothing more then opinion.

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/story/6929/

So the end is in sight, thats my whole point.


That's on hardware, and hardware only. You either didn't read your own article or you did not take in to account the other myriad costs that come in to account.

Your article presents no hard data, it's simply the CEO of Sony saying they hope to break even on the PS3 hardware by March 2008. That of course assumes no further price cuts, and again, takes in to account no additional costs.



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

WiteoutKing on 14 August 2007

Skipping the entire thread to say that the PSP was in absolutely no way a failure. It is, to date, the strongest opponent to any Nintendo handheld since the beginning, pulling in 50% of the DS's hardware sales. That is a strong number.

The PS3... less so.



PS3: 5.51m/51w, avg 108,039/w (up 239)
360: 12.93m/102w, avg 126,764/w (up 625), leads PS3 by 7.42m (up 70k), avg lead 18,725/w (up 386)
Wii: 13.52m/51w, avg 265,098/w (dn 1,102), leads PS3 by 8.01m (up 90k), avg lead 157,059/w (dn 1,341)

If 360 sales stabilize, PS3 sales increases needed to pass 360 by...
01/08: (008w) +875.8%, 04/08: (021w) +344.4%, 07/08: (034w) +219.3%, 10/08: (047w) +163.5%
01/09: (060w) +131.8%, 04/09: (073w) +111.4%, 07/09: (085w) +098.1%, 10/09: (099w) +086.7%
If Wii sales stabilize, PS3 sales increases needed to pass Wii by...
01/08: (008w) +1072.%, 04/08: (021w) +498.4%, 07/08: (034w) +363.4%, 10/08: (047w) +303.1%
01/09: (060w) +269.0%, 04/09: (073w) +246.9%, 07/09: (085w) +232.6%, 10/09: (099w) +220.3%
If PS2 sales freeze, Wii sales increases needed to pass PS2 (as of Mar07, 108.4m) by...
2008: (008w) +4373.8%, 2009: (060w) +0496.5%, 2010: (112w) +0219.6%, 2011: (165w) +0116.9%
2012: (217w) +0064.9%, 2013: (269w) +0033.1%, 2014: (321w) +0011.5%, 2015: (376w) -0004.8%
At +0% it will pass it in 358w, the week ending September 19th, 2014, at an age of 409w (7y44w).
Current age of PS2: 7y37w.

Last update: Week ending November 3, 2007

Hus on 14 August 2007
Bodhesatva said:
Hus said:
Bodhesatva said:
Hus said:
Not gonna answer are you.

Ugh, I was trying to ignore you for Tak's sake, but apparently you just can't help being foolish. It's a little difficult to believe that you can see the complete financial data for Sony, with a rather detailed breakdown of it, and then retort "RSX and 65 nm will save them!" Sony is bleeding billions of dollars, and they just cut the price of the PS3 in a desperate attempt to spark interest in the system. I cannot imagine how you expect a 1.2 billion dollar a year defecit (Which is what their Q1 Fiscal Report projects to), which is an increase in losses from the same time last year, and suddenly expect regular reductions in production cost to magically stop this bleeding. You provide no evidence, no fiscal projections of any kind, nor even any analysis on precisely how much money the RSX and 65 nm chips will save them on a per-system basis. You do not factor in any other subsidiary costs such as the EU bundles, the costs of software development, the costs of advertising, the costs of third party development (you are aware that Sony is sending additional to help to Epic, among others, to assist in the difficult PS3 development process, correct?), and any other costs. You give no quantifiable evidence at all, while I linked the entirety of Sony's fiscal report for the last decade.


And your numbers sure as hell dont show that 65 nono Cell and Rsx will not take then out of the red.

So your "no end in sight" is nothing more then opinion.

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/story/6929/

So the end is in sight, thats my whole point.


That's on hardware, and hardware only. You either didn't read your own article or you did not take in to account the other myriad costs that come in to account.


Other the PS3 hardware production costs, what has been a big money drain for SCE?  Eveything else is know about and expected(3rd part support, bundles, marketing whatever) a huge majority of that loss is the money lost on every PS3 sold you know that damn well.

They were/are losing between $250/300 on every PS3, does that not expalin to you where their losses come from ?

 



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Bodhesatva on 14 August 2007
Hus said:
Bodhesatva said:
Hus said:
Bodhesatva said:
Hus said:
Not gonna answer are you.

Ugh, I was trying to ignore you for Tak's sake, but apparently you just can't help being foolish. It's a little difficult to believe that you can see the complete financial data for Sony, with a rather detailed breakdown of it, and then retort "RSX and 65 nm will save them!" Sony is bleeding billions of dollars, and they just cut the price of the PS3 in a desperate attempt to spark interest in the system. I cannot imagine how you expect a 1.2 billion dollar a year defecit (Which is what their Q1 Fiscal Report projects to), which is an increase in losses from the same time last year, and suddenly expect regular reductions in production cost to magically stop this bleeding. You provide no evidence, no fiscal projections of any kind, nor even any analysis on precisely how much money the RSX and 65 nm chips will save them on a per-system basis. You do not factor in any other subsidiary costs such as the EU bundles, the costs of software development, the costs of advertising, the costs of third party development (you are aware that Sony is sending additional to help to Epic, among others, to assist in the difficult PS3 development process, correct?), and any other costs. You give no quantifiable evidence at all, while I linked the entirety of Sony's fiscal report for the last decade.


And your numbers sure as hell dont show that 65 nono Cell and Rsx will not take then out of the red.

So your "no end in sight" is nothing more then opinion.

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/story/6929/

So the end is in sight, thats my whole point.


That's on hardware, and hardware only. You either didn't read your own article or you did not take in to account the other myriad costs that come in to account.


Other the PS3 hardware production costs, what has been a big money drain for SCE? Eveything else is know about and expected(3rd part support, bundles, marketing whatever) a huge majority of that loss is the money lost on every PS3 sold you know that damn well.

They were/are losing between $250/300 on every PS3, does that not expalin to you where their losses come from ?

 


1) Advertising
2) Software development. Killzone 2 alone has a 40M dollar development budget, let alone tertiary costs.
3) 3rd party assistance. Several companies have requested and received additional development support from Sony itself: Epic and EA are the two examples I know of.
4) Continued Research and Development. Obviously, R&D continues to work on new projects.
5) Addition price cuts
6) Bundles 

There are other minor ones, of course (warranty claims being an obvious one), but these 6 are the major concerns. And please keep in mind that even your own article, which focuses on a statement from Sony itself, only states that they "hope" to reach break-even point within the next 9 months. Nine months. Hope. 

What's your argument here? That at some point in time, in some vague future, that Sony will turn a profit in their gaming department again? I agree. It's just not very clear when that will be.  



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

endimion on 14 August 2007

ok I liked the all financial statement thread for a while now it's getting on my nerves... I'm starting my MBA in 5 days and I really don't want to spoil my wonderful hollydays with accounting and finance lol ;)

really interesting though.... and I agree with you Bod, are you an accountant or something like that ????



Rath on 14 August 2007

No, Sony will not pull the plug this generation on either console. The real question is will they continue onto next generation? I would say the answer to that is probably yes as well.

Oh and everything Bodhevesta has said I totally agree with. That man deserves a DB.



Takashii on 14 August 2007
senatorpjt said:
In historical terms I have to think of the PC Engine, which I actually believe did do quite well in the Japanese and European markets but failed in the US market. However, it was also the first entry from NEC (a large Japanese electronics manufacturing concern). Before the 360, I had expected the same from Microsoft, but they kept dumping money in. However, I think Sony has already seen profits from this enterprise for many years, and it's going to take more than one stumble, however costly, for them to pack it in and leave the market.

 Agreed you couldn't say it better!



Takashii on 14 August 2007
ckmlb said:
A Wii fan who thinks the PS3 and PSP will fail and Sony will leave the console business, how unexpected.

 WOW a mod is saying I'm a Wii fan....Woooohoooo are you serious?? I'm a Sony owner for the past couple of years since I been on this earth, and if you would look at my profile it currently states that I saving for a PS3. Why would I come up with a subject like this out of the blew? huh? I'm no Soriku, I'm Takashii. I saw this thread useful and I needed opinions and I wanted to know why people said what they said. This isn't flame bait ckmlb!! This is the most useful topic ever and I'm liking every bit of it considering I'm learning some things Bod is discussing. So you can chill out with the Takashii-is-Wii-fan. Not once said I own a Wii, so chill out. A mod comes to conclusions and doesn't even look at a thread starter profile. WOW now that is a amazing!