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Forums - Sales - Why are people upset the blockbusters are on the HD Consoles?

Aj_habfan on 31 December 2008
ph4nt said:
Aj_habfan said:
ph4nt said:
I will give credit to the HD fanboys about 3rd party games not selling on Wii when we get an equal version on the Wii.

So far every game that has made good use of Wii controls or balance board, and has all the features of 360/PS3 versions, sell more on wii.

And blockbusters are defined as games that sell the most obviously, if they didn't sell they wouldn't be blockbusters, Nintendo has more blockbusters than either the 360 or PS3.

Call of duty! BAM!

 

Calll of Duty Wii is still a gimped version.

 

Okay, I will have to remember that.

 



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madskillz on 31 December 2008
couchmonkey said:
madskillz said:
All you have to do is ... look at sales. On the Wii, 1st party dominates sales. On the 360 and PS3, it's all about 3rd party. Folks defending the Wii tout the 48 percent market share and the like, but look at what's selling like hot cakes. WiiSports, WiiPlay, WiiFit and Mario. I would love to see a 3rd party develop a game with the Wii as the lead console and see the results. If - and that's a big if - if it's a hit, I and a lot of folks on this site are wrong. But I do think the folks fueling the Wii's success aren't your typical gamer and would be willing to buy games that are fun, not graphic powerhouses. The Wii proved gameplay, not graphics, often move systems.

Check out Guitar Hero, Rock Band, and LEGO ____ sales.

If it's kid-friendly or involves music, it will probably sell more on Wii (until Microsoft adds it to a bundle).

I think more genres are to follow, but not enough developers are taking serious stabs at them. Given RE 4, Metroid Prime 3 and Red Steel, why has nobody tried an exclusive fantasy (not war simulation!) FPS on the Wii? It will be interesting to see how the Conduit sells...

Dude, Guitar Hero series beat out the 360 version by a hair. Rock Band? Unless I have missed something, but the 360 still leads all consoles on RB 1 and RB 2. And Legos? Meh. What I have asked is - show us where is the Wii clearly leading in 3rd party games sold. Fact: It's not. Ninny makes the most money off Wii games. HD consoles have flops, but sales are good on the HD consoles and the Wii ports at the moment - so what will make the other 46M Wii console owners buy those games? Want me to tell you? Nothing. You know why? Who are the 48M folks who bought the Wii? A grip of Wiis are owned by gamers - no doubt - but I know of at least 10 folks with Wiis who never gamed before. Shoot - my wife loves the Wii and won't play my 360 unless we are playing 'Scene It' or 'You are in the movies.'

As much as I like the Wii, some expert needs to do a demographic breakdown on Wii owners. That should prove whether or not blockbusters will rise to the top or sink to the bottom.

 



DMeisterJ on 31 December 2008

The Conduit is going to really be the first big Third Party game coming out for the Wii that we're all informed of. It's a shooter, and they sell well, so that game is going to be where we see the results of what the Wii Fanbase is like.

If that game tanks, I would worry very much if I was a third-party developer on the Wii.



madskillz on 31 December 2008
Squilliam said:
madskillz said:
All you have to do is ... look at sales. On the Wii, 1st party dominates sales. On the 360 and PS3, it's all about 3rd party. Folks defending the Wii tout the 48 percent market share and the like, but look at what's selling like hot cakes. WiiSports, WiiPlay, WiiFit and Mario. I would love to see a 3rd party develop a game with the Wii as the lead console and see the results. If - and that's a big if - if it's a hit, I and a lot of folks on this site are wrong. But I do think the folks fueling the Wii's success aren't your typical gamer and would be willing to buy games that are fun, not graphic powerhouses. The Wii proved gameplay, not graphics, often move systems.

I want to see good Wii games more than you!!!

Actually I would love to see a few good/hopefully great/even more hopefully genre defining WRPGs on the Wii. I think it would be perfect for it all things considered. Its the reason why I feel a hole inside every time I look at the current Wii library.

 

I loved Endless Ocean. Tried to find a certain fish for a client - but he was very forgiving.

And I wish I could have used my katana throughout Red Steel. They should do an RPG on the Wii allowing you to use the Wiimote as a sword. Dang, that would be sweet. I wouldn't mind facing a mastadon with my sword, dodge him and just slash his ankles. Yeah - Lord of the Rings in the house! Now ... that would rock.

 



Squilliam on 31 December 2008
couchmonkey said:
Squilliam said:
Because once to factor in all the costs, the bigger the game the less the Wii "advantages" on overall cost are important.


1. Massive advertisement; You have to advertise as much if not more than HD games to target the wider demographic of users on the Wii.

2. The cost/benifit ratio still applies; Why spend $10,000,000 making a Wii game look good when for an extra $10,000,000 the game will look 5* better?

3. Overall cost ratios come down and favour HD development more as your overall budget increases. Wii $10,000,000 game + $10,000,000 advertisement vs HD $20,000,000 game + $10,000,000 advertisement and the ratio is 2:3.

4. Easier to target demographics and advertising + word of mouth very easy to do with the HD community. The demographics they target for these games are deep, wide and easy to get to within the HD owner userbase. Also never underestimate the power of word of mouth selling games, especially within Xbox Live

1. I'd like to see evidence to support this. The only advertising budget I'm familiar with was $20 million for Lost Planet on Xbox 360. Anecdotally, I do not see more Wii advertising than HD advertising.

3. Except that a blockbuster HD game tends to cost more to develop. Lost Planet cost $20 million and GTA IV cost $100 million, as examples. The highest known budget for a Wii game is $10 million for Red Steel (which I have no idea how they spent that much on that game). Of course, Gears of War was done for $10 million as well, but generally speaking, you can do a blockbuster for less on Wii, because it doesn't require as many art assets.

Ultimately, though, I don't totally disagree with the OP. I think HD consoles are well-suited to blockbusters; maybe more so than Wii. That said, I think Malstrom may be right that the blockbuster system is being disrupted by Wii. The Wii had no blockbuster games this holiday (unless you count Animal Crossing or maybe Guitar Hero and Rock Band) yet it outsold the competition with ease.

Why does it bother people?  Two reasons: One is that we're totally jealous.  The other is that it makes no sense for companies to be putting more money and effort into less popular consoles.

1. Sorry a quote which is too hard to find.

3. The Gears costs are misleading, Microsoft provided so much support for that game so its misleading to use it as an example. GTA IV is probably on the extreme end, they built an incredible engine which is easily better than anything else on the market today for creating a vibrant open world so their costs are over exagerated compared to the realistic middle.

What we do know is this -> 1 Million sales is probably too small so your average HD blockbuster game is probably up to the $40-60 Million mark (All inclusive) and you can count Resident evil 5, Metal Gear Solid 4 and Gears of War 2 amongst this grouping. Big advertisement, 1st party engines and massive sales (Usually) are the hallmark of this group.

I would say your standard HD releases being $5-15 Million to develop and an extremely flexible advertisement budget going on top of that. Your Prince of Persias, Mercenaries 2, Race Driver Grids fall within this category. Overall development costs will probably range between $10 - $30 million for these releases, and they tend to use third party engines to reduce the overall risk and development costs.

On the Wii you have the massive advertisement budgets which can meet and exceed the HD budgets easily. For example Wii-Fits advertisement is well on its way to passing the $100,000,000 mark at this point and other Nintendo releases can also see massive advertisement. With the overall costs this high the development costs start to be overshadowed by the advertisement. Look at Movies for a prime example of this where they can easily spend more again to market than to actually develop the movie.

 

 



Tease.

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Kasz216 on 31 December 2008
Squilliam said:
Because once to factor in all the costs, the bigger the game the less the Wii "advantages" on overall cost are important.


1. Massive advertisement; You have to advertise as much if not more than HD games to target the wider demographic of users on the Wii.

2. The cost/benifit ratio still applies; Why spend $10,000,000 making a Wii game look good when for an extra $10,000,000 the game will look 5* better?

3. Overall cost ratios come down and favour HD development more as your overall budget increases. Wii $10,000,000 game + $10,000,000 advertisement vs HD $20,000,000 game + $10,000,000 advertisement and the ratio is 2:3.

4. Easier to target demographics and advertising + word of mouth very easy to do with the HD community. The demographics they target for these games are deep, wide and easy to get to within the HD owner userbase. Also never underestimate the power of word of mouth selling games, especially within Xbox Live.

I actually disagree with all your points here.  I'd argue word of mouth is better on the Wii... i mean that's why wii games have better legs.

And games cost more to make look better on the PS360... in general.

Your making all the wrong arguements.

Market Diversification and the fact that the PS360 games when they flop, flop hard is the reason.

 



One_touch_KO on 31 December 2008
DMeisterJ said:
The Conduit is going to really be the first big Third Party game coming out for the Wii that we're all informed of. It's a shooter, and they sell well, so that game is going to be where we see the results of what the Wii Fanbase is like.

If that game tanks, I would worry very much if I was a third-party developer on the Wii.

 

 Already 1 copy sold here :D

And HVS already confirmed Conduit2 so...



Squilliam on 31 December 2008
madskillz said:
Squilliam said:
madskillz said:
All you have to do is ... look at sales. On the Wii, 1st party dominates sales. On the 360 and PS3, it's all about 3rd party. Folks defending the Wii tout the 48 percent market share and the like, but look at what's selling like hot cakes. WiiSports, WiiPlay, WiiFit and Mario. I would love to see a 3rd party develop a game with the Wii as the lead console and see the results. If - and that's a big if - if it's a hit, I and a lot of folks on this site are wrong. But I do think the folks fueling the Wii's success aren't your typical gamer and would be willing to buy games that are fun, not graphic powerhouses. The Wii proved gameplay, not graphics, often move systems.

I want to see good Wii games more than you!!!

Actually I would love to see a few good/hopefully great/even more hopefully genre defining WRPGs on the Wii. I think it would be perfect for it all things considered. Its the reason why I feel a hole inside every time I look at the current Wii library.

 

I loved Endless Ocean. Tried to find a certain fish for a client - but he was very forgiving.

And I wish I could have used my katana throughout Red Steel. They should do an RPG on the Wii allowing you to use the Wiimote as a sword. Dang, that would be sweet. I wouldn't mind facing a mastadon with my sword, dodge him and just slash his ankles. Yeah - Lord of the Rings in the house! Now ... that would rock.

 

I want a Wii Fable 2 port with motion +!!! It would be such an awesome game and it would show Microsoft to be above the usual interconsole bickering and prove that they actually believe in the concept of Wii60!

But LOTR would be massive! I would love to play a game like that on the Wii provided it was well done. Its the perfect I.P to develop a mass appeal but awesome WRPG on the Wii.

 



Tease.

c0rd on 31 December 2008
Squilliam said:
madskillz said:
All you have to do is ... look at sales. On the Wii, 1st party dominates sales. On the 360 and PS3, it's all about 3rd party. Folks defending the Wii tout the 48 percent market share and the like, but look at what's selling like hot cakes. WiiSports, WiiPlay, WiiFit and Mario. I would love to see a 3rd party develop a game with the Wii as the lead console and see the results. If - and that's a big if - if it's a hit, I and a lot of folks on this site are wrong. But I do think the folks fueling the Wii's success aren't your typical gamer and would be willing to buy games that are fun, not graphic powerhouses. The Wii proved gameplay, not graphics, often move systems.

I want to see good Wii games more than you!!!

Actually I would love to see a few good/hopefully great/even more hopefully genre defining WRPGs on the Wii. I think it would be perfect for it all things considered. Its the reason why I feel a hole inside every time I look at the current Wii library.

Ha, sounds like the opposite of how I feel.

Unfortunately, the WRPG crowd definitely seems to be locked onto the 360 (and maybe PS3), I don't see that changing, even for lower budget WRPG's (do those exist?).

The HD / Wii split, to me, looks like the console / PC split long ago. Were there any notable WRPG's on the NES/SNES/Mega Drive? Maybe there were, and I don't have a point, but I don't think so...



madskillz on 31 December 2008
Squilliam said:
madskillz said:
Squilliam said:
madskillz said:
All you have to do is ... look at sales. On the Wii, 1st party dominates sales. On the 360 and PS3, it's all about 3rd party. Folks defending the Wii tout the 48 percent market share and the like, but look at what's selling like hot cakes. WiiSports, WiiPlay, WiiFit and Mario. I would love to see a 3rd party develop a game with the Wii as the lead console and see the results. If - and that's a big if - if it's a hit, I and a lot of folks on this site are wrong. But I do think the folks fueling the Wii's success aren't your typical gamer and would be willing to buy games that are fun, not graphic powerhouses. The Wii proved gameplay, not graphics, often move systems.

I want to see good Wii games more than you!!!

Actually I would love to see a few good/hopefully great/even more hopefully genre defining WRPGs on the Wii. I think it would be perfect for it all things considered. Its the reason why I feel a hole inside every time I look at the current Wii library.

 

I loved Endless Ocean. Tried to find a certain fish for a client - but he was very forgiving.

And I wish I could have used my katana throughout Red Steel. They should do an RPG on the Wii allowing you to use the Wiimote as a sword. Dang, that would be sweet. I wouldn't mind facing a mastadon with my sword, dodge him and just slash his ankles. Yeah - Lord of the Rings in the house! Now ... that would rock.

 

I want a Wii Fable 2 port with motion +!!! It would be such an awesome game and it would show Microsoft to be above the usual interconsole bickering and prove that they actually believe in the concept of Wii60!

But LOTR would be massive! I would love to play a game like that on the Wii provided it was well done. Its the perfect I.P to develop a mass appeal but awesome WRPG on the Wii.

 

I would love to be Legolas or Aragon on the LOTR Wii. My favorite parts of LOTR is when Lego is popping clowns like he's a Force Recon sniper in the Marines!

That's a game I would love to see the Wii as the lead console.