By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo making a sustaining change - killing next gen copycats in advance?

vdoesntforgive said:
Infamy79 said:
vdoesntforgive said:
Onyxmeth said:

Are you implying that Wii-Motion + is more advanced than whatever motion thingers the competition are making and thus have killed any possible advantage they may have, or are you saying that the competition simply can't do any better than WM+ because it's as good as motion controls can get?

Also, for someone so well versed on the expansion strategy Nintendo is using to attract new gamers, this argument seems very ignorant on your part and below what I would expect you to say. It should be obvious to you that Sony and MS could mimic and better the motion functions and still not hit the expanded audience at all without other factors present. None of which either company has shown they possess.

I think the problem with Microsoft and Sony now is, the methods the wiimote utilizes has now become the "standard" for how motion controlls should be done. How do MS and Sony go forward without stepping on Nintendo's toes (and their lawyers)? There's definately room for improvement, but I feel either of those two companies are at a risk of putting themselves in a corner they won't be able to get out of, if they too far forward with their "mii too" strategy.

I don't think the lawyers will come into it, Nintendo licensed the motion technology from a 3rd party (although I believe they also have invested in the company) and have said that MS or Sony are free to license the same technology if they want.

Anyway, I guess we need to use M+ before we can see if it can be improved or not. While it will give 1:1 motion, I would be surprised if it was completely accurate with really fast movements. I'm sure there will always be room to improve.

Either way, it certainly will hinder and attempt by Sony & MS to offer improved motion control, as just like BluRay, it may offer some improvement, but not enough to be a true advantage in the market.

 

 

 

Isn't that just the company behind the gyroscopes for Motion+? I'm talking about the actual Wiimote, and techniques they used to get the thing to work the way it does. There has to be a patent hurdle somewhere in there?

bdbdbd can show you the patent.

Its for a remote control shaped controller with ir pointer control and accelorometer built in to the same unit. Its specific enough and vague enough to prevent anyone from copying the shape or multiple functions of the wiimote without breaching copyright.

edit > ok this is what Nintendo owns. No company can use this configuration.

http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=US&NR=2008015017A1&KC=A1&FT=D&date=20080117&DB=&locale=

 



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

Around the Network

@Megaman79: Me? I don't know the Nintendos patent. What i mostly know about why the pointer system was designed as it is, is because of the other patents considering the pointer.
Wii Remotes pointer is designed "backwards" in relation to other pointing devices in the market, since usually the pointing device is a "transmitter" -type of device, sending a signal for the sensor, while Wii Remote is the "receiver", having a camera inside of it to photograph IR source.
Accelerometers, i believe, doesn't have much to patent anymore.

In the end, since Wii Remote doesn't have any tech that didn't exist already or haven't been used in similar form before, i doubt there's much patents considering the tech in it, outside maybe the pointer, so the patents propably are mostly made for the shape and form of the controller(s).



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

@Megaman79: It appeared to be Wii Zapper by description. Notice how it was detailed around the shape, not that much of functionality.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

yea isnt the shape including the internal engineering schematic/layout though?

My bro, whos an industrial design graduate, told me its the function thats patented, not specifically the tech. Maybe in this case your both right.



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

@Megaman79: Well, yes, the function with the specific tech, not the function as in the function in general, as some patents try to do with being "unaccurate" on purpose. You can have the excact same functionality with a different tech with infridging the patent and most patent lawsuits against Wii Remote are about the pointer functionality, that have been patented using a different tech.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Around the Network

motion controls won't affect my choices at all. Playstation 4 for me, maybe 720 if i have the money/am willing to spend. Will not buy next nintendo.



Well, there's no question (in my mind) that motion controls/IR & speaker in controller are all new standards - and rumble is restandardized (now that sixaxis is history). So I expect all consoles will have that or equivelant next gen.

The question is, what else? They will need to not only match the market's expectations but also to surpass them and differentiate themselves from their competition.

I expect Nintendo to heavily go after women. They are building that market now and I think even next gen it'll be almost 100% theirs. That 50% right there. They'll also go for kids, as always, casuals and their nintendofanboys.
So whatever they do controller wise will be very focused on what would appeal to women's sensibilities without being outright girlish.

Sony will be heavily focused on casuals next gen. The PS2 WAS the casual system last gen. Losing that audience cost them this generation. They will be back in the casual market in force next gen but not forsaken the core as much as Nintendo's done. Sony isn't the most innovative company though. So I expect a cross between a Wiimote and a PS3 controller, perhaps the break apart model we've already seen in rumours.

MS will remain the corest of the core systems but also heavily chase that casual market. Thing is I don't think they are too imaginative either. So I expect a lot of Nintendo and Sony copying. Controller will be very functional but not very sexy.

If Apple releases one the controller will be a thin white motion sensing I-touch with a touch and pressure sensitive screen on top and bottom and IR. Just a white wafer that fits nicely into the hand and nothing more.



 

vdoesntforgive said:
Infamy79 said:
vdoesntforgive said:
Onyxmeth said:

Are you implying that Wii-Motion + is more advanced than whatever motion thingers the competition are making and thus have killed any possible advantage they may have, or are you saying that the competition simply can't do any better than WM+ because it's as good as motion controls can get?

Also, for someone so well versed on the expansion strategy Nintendo is using to attract new gamers, this argument seems very ignorant on your part and below what I would expect you to say. It should be obvious to you that Sony and MS could mimic and better the motion functions and still not hit the expanded audience at all without other factors present. None of which either company has shown they possess.

I think the problem with Microsoft and Sony now is, the methods the wiimote utilizes has now become the "standard" for how motion controlls should be done. How do MS and Sony go forward without stepping on Nintendo's toes (and their lawyers)? There's definately room for improvement, but I feel either of those two companies are at a risk of putting themselves in a corner they won't be able to get out of, if they too far forward with their "mii too" strategy.

I don't think the lawyers will come into it, Nintendo licensed the motion technology from a 3rd party (although I believe they also have invested in the company) and have said that MS or Sony are free to license the same technology if they want.

Anyway, I guess we need to use M+ before we can see if it can be improved or not. While it will give 1:1 motion, I would be surprised if it was completely accurate with really fast movements. I'm sure there will always be room to improve.

Either way, it certainly will hinder and attempt by Sony & MS to offer improved motion control, as just like BluRay, it may offer some improvement, but not enough to be a true advantage in the market.

 

Isn't that just the company behind the gyroscopes for Motion+? I'm talking about the actual Wiimote, and techniques they used to get the thing to work the way it does. There has to be a patent hurdle somewhere in there?

 

Nope, the entire Wii-Remote

The Wii-Remote is patented by Nintendo, but the technology that the Wii-Remote uses for motion detection was licensed off a 3rd party and I remember seeing comments from Nintendo execs that other consoles could license the technology if they wanted. Realistically it was win-win for Nintendo if others did because it would always be an add-on to other consoles, it would prove that Nintendo was right in going down the motion control path and as part owners of the company that owned the technology, Nintendo would profit from it.



Never argue with idiots
They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience

Sony doesn't meed a remote like controller. All they need to do is literally split the sixaxis in half.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.



@Infamy79 and others:
I don't remember their names or whether I read about them here or elsewhere, but some independent firms are designing, testing or even producing several motion control devices either for PC and consoles, one of them is a katana hilt-like controller splittable in two smaller ones (always katana hilt-like, but shorter).
Most of them started being designed even 7 or more years ago, so I guess you must do a controller very similar to Wiimote to infringe Nintendo's patents, otherwise either you must negotiate other firms patents rights or you can claim using known prior art if you choose a design that wasn't patented.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!