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Forums - Nintendo - It's time for third parties to make Wii their lead platform

madskillz on 18 December 2008
noname2200 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
madskillz said:
Bobbuffalo said:
"There is little to no shovelware on the PS3 and 360"

you gotta be kidding me...

Care to name some? I'll get my Wii list ready for you too.

 

 

Please nobody respond to this. It's obviously trolling. He wants this argument. You give this to him, you are suckers.

QFT. Not that this will make a difference...

 

Reprinted for your viewing pleasure - Dude - I OWN A WII. I like it, but to say 'There's no shovelware on it' and hint at it on other systems - I am just asking for a gaggle of titles. Show me one thread - one post - where I trash or troll on the Wii. The thread says 'It/'s time for third parties to make Wii their lead platform' and I am discussing why it's NOT. Dude, please - please - read my posts and point out where I am trolling. Thanks.

And I add - how is it trolling when I am trying to make a point? Of any Wii owner on this site, you'd be hard pressed to show me and others a post where I am trolling. Just because someone doesn't see the Wii as the ultimate, I am trolling? Wow ... just wow.

 



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noname2200 on 18 December 2008
madskillz said:

1) Of course the PS2 had more shovelware - it's still being produced! The Gamecube is RIP - unless you buy a Wii and play your old GC titles.

2) More profitable? It has saved Sony's bacon to a point - and has helped this gen. Without out, Sony would break out the soup can and be begging right now. Is it profitable? Absolutely. It's making money because it costs next to nada to make.

3) Safer bet - you don't have to worry if your title will sell on the Wii. HD consoles have a good return with FPS, sports games and some niche games. If the game is decent, it will get sales.

4) If you make a clunker on any system, it's gonna flop, regardless of how awesome the series WAS.

5) Bring the rest of the questions on. I enjoy the Wii - it's a cool console, but nongamers prefer the Wii vs. HD consoles. The sales figures are obvious.

 

For ease of response, I've numbered each of your assertions: reply number follows each assertion.

1) Granted, and a nice dodge, but not the gist of the question. Did the PS2 not have much more shovelware than the Gamecube, even limiting the two to the Gamecube's active lifespan?

2) See above. The question referred specifically to "most developers," not to Sony's profits off the hardware.

3) I don't understand your answer. Sentence one argues against your thesis. Sentence two is an assertion which I can and do take issue with, especially since it does not define its terms. "Good return"? "Decent"? "Sales=profit?"

4) There are far too many games on both ends of the spectrum, i.e. good games selling poorly and bad games selling well, to hold this true.

5) Looking past your remark about "nongamers" (please, in the future, do not take it upon yourself to define who is and is not a gamer), it is true that the majority of the population prefers the Wii to the HD consoles. The implication that you're trying to draw from this, however, leads to a simple chicken-and-egg problem, one which I think will take much, much more time to examine in detail than I can afford right now.

 

I do apologize. I'm doing you a disfavor by beginning a conversation that it appears I no longer have the time to continue. I have the feeling we will take up the matter again sometime in the near future. For now, my apologies for abandoning you so suddenly.



madskillz on 18 December 2008
Soriku said:
madskillz said:
Soriku said:
madskillz said:
I tell you this - it won't happen. Think about how many really system-selling games you have. Folks see the popularity of the Wii, but look at the game sales for it. Their best bet for this gen is the saturation factor - and the attach rate. I know at least 10 folks who bought Wiis and WiiPlay and have yet to buy any other games. Ninny did an awesome thing with WiiSports - and giving a game away with WiiPlay. They made games that are free and you don't really need to buy another game. Sure, WiiFit is hot, but for every hit, you have mountains of shovelware, and titles that hit the bargain bin way too quick.

There is little to no shovelware on the PS3 and 360 - and they are a much, much safer bet than releasing a hardcore game to a very casual audience.

This won't happen.

 

There IS shovelware on the PS3/360. Just not as much as the Wii. But the same goes for any losing consoles. The winning console (PS1, PS2, DS...no different) always gets a lot more shovelware than the losing ones. This won't change. Especially this gen where there's no sense in making shovelware for consoles that cost a lot to make games for. If it's not quality it'll bomb on them, and if it costs too much they'll lost money. That's a problem. While all devs won't make Wii the lead platform, some games it'll happen. But this isn't like last gen where system power was close (though the PS2-Xbox difference was pretty big) and Wii and HD versions would be drastically different. For multiplatform games this will likely not happen a lot, BUT the Wii is still growing at a VERY fast pace. Good exclusive games will take the place of multiplatform games on the Wii...and the Wii has many more of those than the HD consoles. You can see Take Two's latest comment and see that more and more devs can't resist. The Wii has Japan locked up, but the West is an even bigger market for the Wii. Once the Wii hits 50%+ marketshare, and while companies look at their losses, you're going to see some changes. How much change depends on how stubborn (or not) certain companies are. But we're seeing some Western devs shine/starting to shine on the Wii...HVS, Ubisoft (YES, Ubisoft, the supposed devil made Shaun White the lead Wii platform and are making that TMNT game that actually looks better than SSBB according to Nintendo Power). Not like the situation for the Wii will get worse, it'll only get better. I mean...with a 50 mil+ userbase in Q1 next year...how hard will it be to resist putting some major games on the Wii when the install base is just that high? The Wii isn't just made of casuals...there's still a lot of core, and they're worth a good gamble.

Dude ... look at the sales. Look at the charts and see what's selling. It's not games like GTA IV, COD and the like. You are talking about knowing how much you can get back when you invest it. Folks buying the Wii - what other games are they buying? As I stated earlier, family - FAMILY - games. I have a Wii and it's fun, but I'd never buy COD or GTA IV for it. Manhunt 2 was a gimmick more than anything. They want higher returns, and porting it to the Wii is the best case scenario.

Shovelware? You mean stuff produced quickly to get sales on the HD consoles? Yeah - movie-tie-in games are good ones, and some very bizarre titles come to mind. However, for every one of those POCs, you have a GTA, COD, Madden, Metal Gear and the like.

Hold on, Soriku. You said exclusive games were retarded in another thread - now you are defending it for the Wii. What in the devil is going on, son?

All I am saying is - yeah, the Wii is selling, yeah, the Wii is fun, but if you want multiplayer COD, you go for a PC, PS3 or 360, not a Wii. And look at the demographic who are buying the Wii. The games aren't hardcore, Soriku.

 

 

And what huge AAA "mature" games are on the Wii? How can you expect the Wii to sell something that's not there? It's not fair to compare the Wii to the HD then...there's a lot more of those games on the HD consoles rather than the Wii. Devs still had the "Wii is only for casuals" stereotype in their mind, but like Take Two said, they can't ignore the Wii anymore, and neither will many other devs.

As you can see, many devs are reporting losses. Why? The high HD costs. Not the Wii. The HD consoles. The Wii has significantly lower dev costs and the only reason games like SMG or whatever sells well because it's quality. As for the shovelware that sells...every #1 system has sold shovelware. Even the PS2. Even the DS. Did they only get casual games? No. Are/were they the strongest systems when comparing them to their competitors? No. Did they make a lot of money? Yes. Low dev costs and huge install base is key.

I said timed exclusives were retarded. Not exclusives. Timed exclusives result in the game selling very bad once the game finally releases on the console that didn't get the timed exclusivity. Case in point: Eternal Sonata, Bioshock, etc.

There are plenty of hardcore games that sold well. And they sold well because they're quality and some cases like SSBB and such they're notable big titles. Games like NMH...they sold well and NMH was Suda's best selling game ever and there's a NMH2 coming.

But ... my question is - will the same 42M folks buy 15-16M copies of GTA IV? It will take twice the effort - because you can not produce a game made for the Wii first and redo it to amp up the graphics. It would require manpower, which means $$$, which cuts your bottom line. I seriously do not expect to see the Wii EVER be the lead console in this gen.

Soriku, I know you love the Wii and defend it - I admire you for that - but in these tough economic times, and seeing the low returns on some Wii games - a lot more than 360 and PS3 - they know they can get sales on HD consoles. The Wii is still a gamble for hard-core devs ATM. Don't get my wrong - there are turds on both sides of the aisle - Haze, Lair on the PS3, Hot Wheels Beat That, Shadow Run and I'll even put Viva Pinata there.

 



madskillz on 18 December 2008
Soriku said:
madskillz said:
noname2200 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
madskillz said:
Bobbuffalo said:
"There is little to no shovelware on the PS3 and 360"

you gotta be kidding me...

Care to name some? I'll get my Wii list ready for you too.

 

 

Please nobody respond to this. It's obviously trolling. He wants this argument. You give this to him, you are suckers.

QFT. Not that this will make a difference...

 

Reprinted for your viewing pleasure - Dude - I OWN A WII. I like it, but to say 'There's no shovelware on it' and hint at it on other systems - I am just asking for a gaggle of titles. Show me one thread - one post - where I trash or troll on the Wii. The thread says 'It/'s time for third parties to make Wii their lead platform' and I am discussing why it's NOT. Dude, please - please - read my posts and point out where I am trolling. Thanks.

And I add - how is it trolling when I am trying to make a point? Of any Wii owner on this site, you'd be hard pressed to show me and others a post where I am trolling. Just because someone doesn't see the Wii as the ultimate, I am trolling? Wow ... just wow.

 

 

Nobody said the Wii didn't have shovelware. That's not even the point of the thread...

Btw...

"If you make a clunker on any system, it's gonna flop, regardless of how awesome the series WAS."

But a clunker on the Wii is much better than one on the HD consoles. Just look at Free Radical. They're having trouble (rumored to close up shop) and their last game was Haze on the PS3.

They bet on the wrong horse. I haven't played the game and probably won't, but the fans of this game touted it as a system seller on the PS3. They would have gotten some return - maybe a few breaths porting to the 360. Their lose.

As far as shovelware, what I am saying is - do the sales of software sold - and I am talking about third-party titles - justify this? That's all I am really saying. It's a hit with seniors, soccer moms, kids and girls/women dig it at parties. No one is denying that fact. My question is - are those same folks going to buy games?

 



madskillz on 18 December 2008

@ Noname - cool, PM me when you wanna chat more.



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zleep on 18 December 2008

Doesn't matter if 3rd party devs shift support towards the Wii or not, gaming is very near another crash that will inevitably happen. Nintendo may be the ONLY one to remain on their feet when this happens.



madskillz on 18 December 2008

Soriku said: Uh...what's wrong with Wii exclusives then? Make the Wii get it's own GTA. Or its own whatever. I don't see why making a game like that for $5-$10 million for the Wii is very bad and good when it's a $100 million game on HD consoles.

I can't believe you're still saying the HD consoles are better in these economic times when companies are losing money because of the HD consoles and not the Wii.

Besides owning the console, is there any proof that the games will sell like hot cakes on the Wii? We can see how the games sell on the PS2-Xbox - and mirror that on the 360 and PS3. The Wii isn't like any other console. I keep saying this - and I won't stop. I know several people who would never touch a video game that talk and go on and on about the Wii. It's hot and it's selling. However, based on your logic, most devs make the Wii the lead console, then, have to use another team to create an HD console version. Name any games where a non-HD console was the lead - and had it ported to an HD console. You would have to sell tons of extra copies to recoup these costs. And it's still not a given it will sell good on the Wii.

Just look at these numbers - Wii:

Top 20 games on the Wii:

1 Wii Sports Nintendo 68,167 7.86 36.57m 24th Sep 08
2 Wii Play Nintendo 36,980 6.83 17.79m 24th Sep 08
3 Wii Fit Nintendo 91,541 7.86 11.89m 24th Sep 08
4 Mario Kart Wii Nintendo 200,285 7.78 11.22m 20th Aug 08
5
Super Smash Bros. Brawl Nintendo 304,177 8.03 7.69m 17th Nov 08
6 Super Mario Galaxy Nintendo 414,763 8.12 7.49m 17th Nov 08
7 Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Sega 21,691 7.76 6.16m 01st Oct 08
8 Mario Party 8 Nintendo 28,224 7.46 5.77m 01st Feb 08
9 The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo 81,874 8.26 4.96m 01st Feb 08
10 Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock RedOctane 32,568 7.69 3.62m 14th Dec 08
11 Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree Nintendo 11,162 7.41 2.99m 21st Oct 08
12 Carnival Games Global Star 15,021 7.24 2.61m 08th Mar 08
13 Super Paper Mario Nintendo 19,020 7.79 2.56m 26th Oct 08
14 Link's Crossbow Training Nintendo 17,351 7.34 2.51m 07th Oct 08
15 Wario Ware: Smooth Moves Nintendo 8,169 7.38 2.40m 05th Mar 08
16 Sonic and the Secret Rings Sega 15,006 7.75 1.94m 27th Sep 08
17 Mario Strikers Charged Nintendo 27,464 7.80 1.84m 01st Dec 08
18 Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga LucasArts 12,748 7.75 1.70m 02nd Mar 08
19 Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition Capcom 79,457 8.13 1.65m 05th Sep 08
20

Game Party

 



madskillz on 18 December 2008

I count 6 of those titles are third-party.

Now, look at the PS3 and 360.

13 of the top 20 games on the PS3 are 3rd-party.

On the 360, it's 15 third-party titles.

Let's do the math - 6 vs. 13 vs. 15.

All I am saying is - look at what sells on the Wii. It's a family console, and family are buying it. I don't doubt hard-core gamers are buying it, but the software numbers don't lie.

Again, look at the Wii titles - 1 FPS - Resident Evil - was the only one to break into the top 20. And it's the most violent. The others aren't.

I don't see any COD or Maddens in the top 20. Porting is a much easier option instead of making the devs use the Wii as the lead console. The numbers show one thing IMHO - folks buy the Wii - and first-party titles benefit the most. If you are a third-party, you better study these numbers before making the Wii your lead console.



madskillz on 19 December 2008
Soriku said:
I don't see any reasoning at all why big games wouldn't sell on the Wii. There's nothing to deny that.

And if you look, core games are on the Wii in the top 20 charts. Brawl, Zelda, RE4 (M rated, and it's a remake!)

Soriku, maybe you just want to debate, but look at what I posted - right off this site. I didn't post the other numbers for the consoles, but look at the breakdown. I am just saying family games - or E-T fighting games are the best sellers on the Wii. The only M game is Resident Evil. And based on those numbers, you say it deserves to be the lead console for devs? Nah ... hardware sales are one thing, but software sales lean heavily to HD consoles.

 



zleep on 19 December 2008

The only M rated game there is RE4 because it's the only decent M rated game on the Wii / discussion