Drkohler has provided 0 information about his background, why are you so interested in acknowledging so fast?
Why is asking for some kind of evidence so damning?
And why was Skeeuk getting this thread started?
Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).
| Groucho said: Anyone who is asking for documentation from drkohler needs to step back and consider that this information is just plain not available. All we can do is "guess". We rely upon anonymous information to further our knowledge, and make better guesses, and that's it. No docs, no nothing, or VGChartz would be pointless. |
Well then he just make his shit up just like a lot of people on the net that's all some of us are saying. He said the other guy is full of crap but he is not then he need to tell us why he is not full of crap.
If I am going to call you out on something then should I not be able to back up why I *KNOW* more than you?
| Bitmap Frogs said: Drkohler has provided 0 information about his background, why are you so interested in acknowledging so fast? Why is asking for some kind of evidence so damning? And why was Skeeuk getting this thread started? |
because i want t know if microsoft have turned a profit yet, from the 1billion$ rrod losses. is it possible that they can claw thier rrod losses back end of this fy?
...not much time to post anymore, used to be awesome on here really good fond memories from VGchartz...
PSN: Skeeuk - XBL: SkeeUK - PC: Skeeuk
really miss the VGCHARTZ of 2008 - 2013...
Anyway, I would think this article post by Fishy would be more "reliable" than some guy on the net claiming inside infomation.
"In Asia, market research firm GfK said Xbox shipments in October grew by 53 percent compared to September after Microsoft cut the price of the console to less than $200.
No figures were available for the same period last year as they only began tracking the market late last year.
Bowman said current shipment volumes had reached such high levels that the company could afford to depend on volume to rake in a profit despite the lower prices."
Here's link to Fishyjoe's thread about the article -
http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=53317
Skeeuk said:
because i want t know if microsoft have turned a profit yet, from the 1billion$ rrod losses. is it possible that they can claw thier rrod losses back end of this fy? |
See? This is what I mean, this thread just reads as a boombox for some bad pr on MS. You just tossed another line in your last post. I've been reading kohlers posting history and he's been very active in the sony side of the forum reading things the good way for sony. Including the spread of interesting bits of ancient pr such as the "10 year plan" etc.
Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).
| Bitmap Frogs said: There's *many* ways to back your claims about your own background without "submit a fifty page abstract, etc etc". Also, I wonder why anyone has a problem with this. It's exactly the same Sony did back in the day: use superior resources to those available to competitors in a market, resources coming from a strong parent company, to bankroll success using a loss-leading model. edit@wiistation if someone claims to be involved in the industry enough to be able to gain knowledge about the real costs of the 360 and wants us to swallow his facts without proof, at least he should be making a convincing case about his background. .... See? This is what I mean, this thread just reads as a boombox for some bad pr on MS. You just tossed another line in your last post. I've been reading kohlers posting history and he's been very active in the sony side of the forum reading things the good way for sony. Including the spread of interesting bits of ancient pr such as the "10 year plan" etc. |
Sigh.. what an incoherent reply... What does "It's exactly the same Sony did back.." have to do with my knowledge in manufacturing processes and costs? And once again, hopefully for the last time, I have _no_ insight into the real costs of your beloved gadgets, be that an XBox or a PS3 or a monster truck. What I have is 25 years of experience in various mass manufacturing industries (including industries that deal with making of computer/console parts). Just to drive you nuts, once I visited a research laboratory that developed dyes for Blu-ray discs before most of you even knew there is something like Blu-ray discs coming. And just to drive you more nuts, I'm not going to tell you where that lab was, because it is utterly irrelevant. Just for your fixed idea that I am somehow "good for Sony", I do not care the least whether XBoxes or PS3s or Wii or whatever toaster gadget sells or does not sell, I have no connection to Sony, Nintendo or MS, never had a console and never will. But this is all irrelevant. I was only trying to remind people that all those posts telling people "MS/Sony/Nintendo makes profit on the manufacturing level with gadget xy is not correct occasionally. And to drive you even more nuts (yes I can be rude, too), I recently talked with a MS representative and in our discussion mentioning manufacturing prices, he did not flinch the least when i gave my estimates, but his answer "we get the money back with hw addons and the software" was telling. And no for the last time, I do not give you his phone number so you can have "proof" this happened at all (didn't know this guy, anyways).
And yes, my writing style can get extremely agressive when I see people twisting the stuff I write and start to interpret stuff into it that simply is not there because they either are not willing or able to understand what I write.
| drkohler said:
1. Current manufacturing costs for an XBox Arcade: around $240 2. Current manufacturing costs for other XBox models: around $270 3. Current manufacturing costs for a PS3: around $350 (All estimates +/- 5-10%. Any no and no again, I'm not going to tell you or any kid why I know these estimates are reasomanly close to the truth). Now currently, the arcade sells around $210 in Europe. This value is the final sales price in all shop and includes all state and local taxes as well as shop margins (which are very likely lower than Wall-Mart's margins in the States). All this amounts to around 20-35% MS has to forfeit on the $210 price, so MS gets around $150-170 for their arcades an around $200 for their other models. this gives you a rough idea how MS is losing money. Now the price for a PS3 in Europe has a MSRP of around $540. Again this includes all taxes and shop margins. If Sony gives shop margins as low as MS, thy get around $350-$380 for their console, essentially manufacturing parity or even a slight profit. |
$100 PS3 price cut in March 2009 confirmed.
| drkohler said: You should be a little more careful about freely issuing such highly libeluous statements. Now granted, nobody at Sony takes your fanboy statements for anything else than lunatic rants so you are reasonably safe from a cease-and-desist letter from a lawyer. However, that doesn't make them better in any way. Now here is some food for thought for you: 1. Current manufacturing costs for an XBox Arcade: around $240 2. Current manufacturing costs for other XBox models: around $270 3. Current manufacturing costs for a PS3: around $350 (All estimates +/- 5-10%. Any no and no again, I'm not going to tell you or any kid why I know these estimates are reasomanly close to the truth). In forums like these, there seems to be the general consensus that manufacturing costs go greatly down in time and particularly, people seem to be fond of the argument that a die shrink is the deus ex machina, the ultimate cost saviour that drives down costs in the hundreds of $. Now you should consider the following points before you pray these mantras: Manufacturing costs always increase on many levels - wages go up, raw material costs go up, taxes go up, transportation costs go up (shipping a container from continent A to B once was around $4000, now it is around $7000 just as an example), environment protection costs go up. A die shrink eventually reduces your costs typically by 30% in the end, but only AFTER the manufacturer has recouped the costs for exchanging the necessary machines. Also keep in mind that all consoles were designed with mass manufacturing processes right from the drawing board, so there are no magical cost saving changes involved at any time in the life of the consoles. Also it might be good to remind people of the difference between manufacturing costs and production costs, which even professional companies occationally seem to forget (there is this infamous table floating around that gives manufacturing costs of $850 for a PS3 - let me assure you that manufacturing a PS3 never cost more than $550 - ithey probably knew the production costs of around $850 for a PS3 and made a faulty manufacturing price breakdown table to get to this value).
|
Unless you're privvy to some information im not, I do have to doubt your estimated costs, especially for the PS3. The PS3 has three large unknowables which make estimating its total cost difficult. As far as I am aware, there has been no statement that the RSX GPU I.P is owned by Sony, so at this point it is safe to presume that they pay a royalty of some sort to Nvidia. They also pay IBM to manufacture the Cell processor, as this isn't using a commodity type fabricator such as TSMC it makes it difficult/impossible to know how much they are charged for it. Lastly, they use XD-ram which is less important but one cannot simply look up a spot price for that particular technology.
Recently commodity prices have been falling rapidly. Transportation, plastic, metals, components, silicon prices are all coming down (Well at least once the contracts terminate). Over time as silicon manufacturing moves onto newer processes and yields improve the total cost of the silicon components do drop quite considerably. Take the less "fun" chips such as the scaler and south-bridges. IIRC Intel uses the 130nm process to make their chipsets, its cheaper to use an older process than to build newer capacity at the more expensive process nodes. So as say the GPU manufacturers transition onto TSMCs 55nm and 40nm nodes, I would expect Microsoft to pay less as the demand eases on the processes they use. So in effect the total cost does come down, but often not for the reasons people expect.
Tease.
| Groucho said: Anyone who is asking for documentation from drkohler needs to step back and consider that this information is just plain not available. All we can do is "guess". We rely upon anonymous information to further our knowledge, and make better guesses, and that's it. No docs, no nothing, or VGChartz would be pointless. |
Yep, never question any information that has been placed on the internet.
Again no information at all from drkohler, just more chest thumping and the now usual "don't ask questions" attitude coming from him. Dodging questions like that further hinders his credibility.
Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).
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