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Forums - General Discussion - Live in Indiana? Give the gift of Abortion!

Rath on 09 December 2008
MrBubbles said:
Comrade Tovya said:
MrBubbles said:
Rath said:
I'm no longer just pro-choice, I'm pro-abortion.

I'm serious too, I think that in a world with problems with over-crowding and with children growing up in entirely unsuitable conditions abortion needs to be free and widely available and used more often than it currently is.

Though I disagree with it as a form of birth control, there are far safer ways of doing that.

 

why not just nuke most of africa and asia?

 

oh god, i know you are joking, but that's just too much.  especially those poor kids in africa... they have enough problems to worry about than by adding nuclear devastation to the mix.

 

it wasnt really a joke.  just a critical look on his position.  if murder is ok because of over-crowding and unsuitable conditions....why not go to places where there are large amounts of people living in poor conditions and kill them.

Once again we come to the crux of the argument. You see it as murder as you see a fetus as human, I see a fetus as a collection of cells with absolutley no mental abilities. To me killing a fetus is like cutting down a tree, except killing a fetus doesn't cause harm to the environment, in fact in the long run it probably helps the environment.

Bombing Africa and Asia is causing devastation to the environment and maiming and killing many creatures that do have the ability to feel pain and emotion (including humans). The political fallout would also be staggering.

Just make abortion easier to access and more culturally acceptable and both humanity and the planet will be better off.

 



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vlad321 on 09 December 2008

Just an interesting observation pertaining to abortion, I'm also not generalizing here, or at least trying my best not to. The most interesting people I have noticed are the religious republicans here who will go on and on and on about how government should stay out of people's lives as much as possible, then you ask them about abortion and they do a complete 180 turn on you. Not saying everyone, just the ones that are like that are interesting.



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appolose on 09 December 2008

Oh my, what have I done? :)
If overcrowding really is such a problem, I think either imposing limits or even sterilization would do. That would circumvent the moral objection, for me.



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Kasz216 on 09 December 2008
Comrade Tovya said:
Neos said:
Comrade Tovya said:
Oh no, I get what you are saying... so no argument there.

I just hate "the easy way out" on most things. Because not everyone gets a choice in these types of matters.

If you have arthritis in your hand, and you decide just to amputate you hand to end the pain permanently, I don't agree with the choice, but I won't interject. It's something that only affects that person, so if they want to do it, it's none of my business.

Abortion became personal to me at an early age for obvious reasons, so I just put the unborn first because they don't get a say in what happens to them.

Line up 100 kids who were almost aborted (but the mother chose life instead) and ask them if they regreat the choice their mother made.. I'm no Einstein, but I'd bet all 100 kids would choose life. That's my only point I suppose. I'm one of those kids, and I'm damn glad she changed her mind.

You are totally not getting the point imo. Of course those kids would choose life. If the abortion did happen, there wouldn't be any kids to ask from! on the rest i agree with Rath. It depends on the situation a lot. And also what moongoddess says; at what point in life do you have a soul etc.

But, if you want to make it personal like you did, okay.

Imagine; you come out as a baby all happy and stuff. at the age of 3-4 you become a little bit aware of what is happening around you .Imagine you living in some random trailer park. the parents aren't insured and they haven't got any money for you to go to school. There are no good future prospects for you. You end up like your parents in some kind of vicious circle. Your dad (wants to make a good living), becomes an evil member of the maffia and kills for money and deals in drugs.Now tell me, do you still want to live? I think the mother then has to have this choice, and think for the baby, because that's what this is all about right?

 

 

OMG, you are crazy.  So you now are justifying the killing of children who will be born into poverty or unfair situations?  So kill the poor kids is you answer?  That's just absurd.

But playing your absurd little game, I'll just ask the person sitting next to me, because that is similar to how they were raised (with the exception their dad was a drug dealer)...

Okay, it unanimous, she doesn't want to die either...

I agree.  We should convince the rich that eating babies is the new in trend in dining and then rather then have abortions, have the poor sell their children to the rich for food.

It'd help overpopulation and the world hunger crisis.

 



SamuelRSmith on 09 December 2008
appolose said:
Oh my, what have I done? :)
If overcrowding really is such a problem, I think either imposing limits or even sterilization would do. That would circumvent the moral objection, for me.

 

 So many countries would disagree to this simply because it stunts economic growth.



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Comrade Tovya on 09 December 2008
vlad321 said:
Just an interesting observation pertaining to abortion, I'm also not generalizing here, or at least trying my best not to. The most interesting people I have noticed are the religious republicans here who will go on and on and on about how government should stay out of people's lives as much as possible, then you ask them about abortion and they do a complete 180 turn on you. Not saying everyone, just the ones that are like that are interesting.

 

No, I am a conservative, but I am FAR from religious.. I believe in God and what not, but that's just about where my religion ends.

My opinions come strictly from experience as a near aborted kid and my brother who (if you read my previous post) nearly was as well.  So I'm not some conservative quack wanting to push my will on others, I just want to protect the rights of those who have no voice.

I've always been that way... hell I had my own personal police officer who followed me everywhere I went in high school because I always beat up the bullies and woman beaters in school. The only reason they graduated me (quite literally) is because my principal was scared to death to have me come back the next year...

I've always despised people who think they can do whatever they want without taking someone else's feeling into account.  I'm that crazy bastard who jumps into a crowd of white-supremicists and takes them all on at once because they are beating up the black guy (I actually did this before too)..

I just can't sit back and watch people get screwed with, it's in my nature... and the abortion issue is no different.  It's just too personal for me because of what nearly happened to my brother and I.  Although it's only my voice & money that I can use to fight for the unborn's rights, I will use it my resources to my fullest to protect as many lives as I can.  I think it's our duty as human beings to do so.



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Kasz216 on 09 December 2008

Oh and for the serious opinion on abortion.

Just a clump of cells until brainwaves are formed.



Rath on 09 December 2008
appolose said:
Oh my, what have I done? :)
If overcrowding really is such a problem, I think either imposing limits or even sterilization would do. That would circumvent the moral objection, for me.

 

Interestingly I am against both on moral grounds.

I think that both compulsory sterilization and legal limits on the number of children you can have violate the rights of parents. However optional (and free, or perhaps even with incentives) sterilization and incentives for having fewer children are decent ideas for controlling the population in my opinion.



appolose on 09 December 2008
Rath said:
appolose said:
Oh my, what have I done? :)
If overcrowding really is such a problem, I think either imposing limits or even sterilization would do. That would circumvent the moral objection, for me.

 

Interestingly I am against both on moral grounds.

I think that both compulsory sterilization and legal limits on the number of children you can have violate the rights of parents. However optional (and free, or perhaps even with incentives) sterilization and incentives for having fewer children are decent ideas for controlling the population in my opinion.

 

Mm, perhaps the second option would be better.

@Samuel

Nevertheless (if abortion wouldn't stunt economic growth), it would solve the possible more pressing problem of overpopulation



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To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

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Kasz216 on 09 December 2008
Rath said:
appolose said:
Oh my, what have I done? :)
If overcrowding really is such a problem, I think either imposing limits or even sterilization would do. That would circumvent the moral objection, for me.

 

Interestingly I am against both on moral grounds.

I think that both compulsory sterilization and legal limits on the number of children you can have violate the rights of parents. However optional (and free, or perhaps even with incentives) sterilization and incentives for having fewer children are decent ideas for controlling the population in my opinion.

Sterilization with incentives will be argued that you are trying to sterlize the poor by liberals in most countries.

So would incentives for having fewer children honestly.  Unless the country gets as bad as some of the more really crowded ones.

It's the same reason people in the US can't sell their organs willingly. 

The funny thing about sterlizations is too they won't do them.  Most doctors won't for example tie a woman's tubes if she wants it done unless she has had a kid... even if she doesn't want one.