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Forums - Microsoft - Microsofts Next Media Format?

Comrade Tovya said:
rhisc said:

It would make sense for MS to use BR discs as it would obviously increase the capacity but also add a bullet point to their system and say that they can play BR movies just like the Playstation.

Digital downloads are too far away.  Even with the popularity of XBL its surprising that the most downloaded game is Aegis with 1.3 million and this is a free game to boot.  Seems like the masses aren't interested or aware of digital downloads.

 

Right, but I don't think that people care about a console that can play Blu-ray movies... it obviously hasn't helped, and has actually hurt the last place Sony PS3.

People want cheap, and the Blu-ray option is just keeping an otherwise great console too expensive for Sony to sell more PS3s.

 

By the time the next console comes out the licensing fee for BR will be cheaper.  When Windows XP came out it did not have DVD drivers.  You needed to buy 3rd party drivers like WinDVD.  Microsoft did this because they didn't want to pay for the licensing fee.  Years later the fee has come down and they include it in Media Player.  

Whenever the nextbox comes out not only will the licensing fees be cheaper but the drives will be cheaper as well as the cost to manufacture discs.  If Blu Ray continues to grow it will be expected to have support right out of the box.  MS will want to be at least on par with their competitor.

MS is going to try to create the single box that you connect to your TV that does everything.  Play games, DVD/BR movies, streams, etc.

 

 





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I know there is some work on expanding the standard DVD size, but Flash Memory is also a promising alternative, and my preferred media over disc, since they don't get scratched. Currently, a 16 GB can be found for cheap, but still more than brd disc in bulk. I think alot of people are working on alternatives, since there is ALOT of money to be made...time will tell.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

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1337 Gamer said:
Comrade Tovya said:
1337 Gamer said:
Comrade Tovya said:
1337 Gamer said:
Comrade Tovya said:

Garnett and I have have been talking about an interesting subject matter in another thread...

So I'm just curious as to what everyone else thinks right now.  Of course, the opinions are subject to change, because it's too early to know yet...

But none-the-less, if you had to make a prediction today, what do you think Microsoft will choose for their next media format for the next XBOX? 

The only thing I am almost sure about, is that standard DVDs are not big enough, and it's unlikely that MS or Nintendo would choose to help line Sony's coffers by using Blu-ray (though it is not out of the realm of possibilities or course).

If it were me, I would probably chose HD DVD as the physical format because Toshiba abandoned it, and of course MS is/was part of the HD DVD Consortium and therefore it is partially theirs anyway.  Hence, the royalties would be almost nothing to pay out, the disc space is comparable to Blu-ray, and the technology is cheaper and easier to produce discs on than Blu-ray.  Plus, there are literally hundreds of thousands of HD DVD drives out there that MS could buy for pennies on the dollar, making the console still relatively cheap.

Plus, as this generation has well shown, people don't really care if their consoles play movies... the Wii doesn't and it's the #1 console on the market by far, the XBOX 360 only play standard DVDs and it sucks at doing that, and the PS3 plays Blu-rays and upconverts beautifully, but it's in far, far last place.

It's my opinion also that MS should offer a full new-release game download service like Sony does with the PSN and then also offer (if they could work it out with the 3rd party guys) a streaming game subscription service... it would be pricey, but for people like me who buy 20-30 game titles a year, it would be cost effective.  And for those who only buy 2-3 titles a year, they could just buy a physical disc or download it to their HDD.

Just my idea of course (and is subject to change).  What kind of ideas do you guys have?

 

Yeah thats been my opinion too. Microsoft can use HD-DVD if they want. Thres nothing to stop them and it is a really good technology and will address the lack of disk space on DVD- 9. They own the Technology so they should use it

 

I think so too... just change the name of the format to shed the "loser" tag that the name HD DVD has.. maybe HD MD (High-def Media Disc).  Then again, maybe something better & cheaper is here before that time arrives..

 

 Yeah but why does it necessarily have to be able to play Movies in BR. I mean much like BR, HD-DVD has multiple layers. If i remember correctly they had a triple layer HD-DVD with 51 GB a couple years ago and i imagine that they can add alot more layers. So why not use HD-DVD for the games and expand their current NETFLIX service for playing Movies.

 

I mean because adopting the latest and greatest Movie player always assures victory ;)

 

I couldn't agree more... I actually said the same thing a couple of times in this thread.  I think the inclusion of Blu-ray would actually hurt MS far more than it would help them.. Just ask Sony, that's why they are losing the latest console war.

Well im glad im not the only one thinking this. Lol to everyone who thinks blu-ray us the end all be all of media formats it still has a long way to go. I for one dont see it on any consoles except the PS4 next gen

 

 

Right.  The irony is that Sony mocked the industry because MS & Nintendo didn't have Blu-ray.  The really believed it was the wildcard that would push them to victory in the console war.



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freedquaker said:

Using HD-DVD is a VERY GOOD IDEA for all those points you mentioned, so I totally aggree with you about that! There is one problem though, those drives will be old-technology then and very slow in comparison. You can't simply use though those old drives because of this, you need to improve the technology. There is a chance that some other format or Bluray can be cheaper by that time.

People are complaining about the size of dvd in 360 and then speculate about "digital download" only media in the future. Its uncomrehensible! I mean given that the dvd size is barely enough now, future games will be dozens of Gigabytes and do you honestly expect people to download all those data? The bandwidths will not be THAT good, they will probably increase 3-4 times in the next 5 years, which is still a pain in the ass if you'd like to download a 20-30 GB data! (with 10 mbps, it will take ablout 10 hours for the best scenario! Plus many potential problems).

 

It's really hard to know what is going to happen, but I do know that all 3 console manufacturers have been putting serious thought into it already.  We all know that MS claims they started preparing for the next console generation the day after the 360 was released, so it's no doubt that this has been the subject of great debate in Redmond, WA.

Really, who can know what the bandwidth capabilities will be in 3+ years?  I get a full 3mb download speed for $17.50/month through Charter now, so I can only imagine as Fios starts to take over that the speeds will jump 10 times.  I worked at Verizon years back with the Fios team, and we were easily sucking 20+ meg download speeds in tests, and that was back in 2004.  By 2012 it will be just sick.



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rhisc said:
Comrade Tovya said:
rhisc said:

It would make sense for MS to use BR discs as it would obviously increase the capacity but also add a bullet point to their system and say that they can play BR movies just like the Playstation.

Digital downloads are too far away.  Even with the popularity of XBL its surprising that the most downloaded game is Aegis with 1.3 million and this is a free game to boot.  Seems like the masses aren't interested or aware of digital downloads.

 

Right, but I don't think that people care about a console that can play Blu-ray movies... it obviously hasn't helped, and has actually hurt the last place Sony PS3.

People want cheap, and the Blu-ray option is just keeping an otherwise great console too expensive for Sony to sell more PS3s.

 

By the time the next console comes out the licensing fee for BR will be cheaper.  When Windows XP came out it did not have DVD drivers.  You needed to buy 3rd party drivers like WinDVD.  Microsoft did this because they didn't want to pay for the licensing fee.  Years later the fee has come down and they include it in Media Player.  

Whenever the nextbox comes out not only will the licensing fees be cheaper but the drives will be cheaper as well as the cost to manufacture discs.  If Blu Ray continues to grow it will be expected to have support right out of the box.  MS will want to be at least on par with their competitor.

MS is going to try to create the single box that you connect to your TV that does everything.  Play games, DVD/BR movies, streams, etc.

 

 

 

I think MS is betting on the horse that by the time Blu-ray has a chance to overrun standard DVDs, streaming media will take over as the format of choice.  That actually was the purported reason that MS didn't throw its full weight behind HD DVD to begin with... the rumor was that later in 2008 streaming media would be coming to the 360 and that their mediocre support of HD DVD was just there to prolong the format war against Blu-ray until they could perfect streaming media.  Looks like that rumor was true, as the Netflix streaming service via the 360 is awesome.



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You definitely can get this kind of speeds but it's not going to be available for the masses that soon. We need another generation for this to happen.



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

I think flash memory would be a great possibility, but then it seems like it would be too easy to pirate, or perhaps too easy to corrupt the data by popping the flash drives in and out all the time.

The benefits of flash storage, though, would be:
Size: could fit 16GB of data on a 2 inch device. makes having a large collection of games much easier to organize
Speed: great data transfer rates using either SD or a USB flash drive.
Cost: low cost, as you said already.

The only other negative I could see is that right now flash media is topping out at around 16GB for USB flash drives. Perhaps in a year or two this number could have doubled or so, but that still leaves Blu-Ray with a data size advantage. I'm really not sure what they will use, but it's really a toss up between Blu-Ray, flash, HD-DVD, and downloads at the moment.

I don't think it will be all downloads, because not everyone will have fast enough internet and many people like to own the physical media, plus you can't "resell or trade" downloaded media so the used games would no longer be available.



nightsurge said:
I think flash memory would be a great possibility, but then it seems like it would be too easy to pirate, or perhaps too easy to corrupt the data by popping the flash drives in and out all the time.

The benefits of flash storage, though, would be:
Size: could fit 16GB of data on a 2 inch device. makes having a large collection of games much easier to organize
Speed: great data transfer rates using either SD or a USB flash drive.
Cost: low cost, as you said already.

The only other negative I could see is that right now flash media is topping out at around 16GB for USB flash drives. Perhaps in a year or two this number could have doubled or so, but that still leaves Blu-Ray with a data size advantage. I'm really not sure what they will use, but it's really a toss up between Blu-Ray, flash, HD-DVD, and downloads at the moment.

I don't think it will be all downloads, because not everyone will have fast enough internet and many people like to own the physical media, plus you can't "resell or trade" downloaded media so the used games would no longer be available.

 

I agree.  I think 6mb download speeds will have to be the standard rule rather than the exception before downloading games becomes the #1 format.  I really hope it starts to take hold by 2012.

And I do agree that tiny flash media would be best if they can make it cost effective by then.   Maybe to prevent data corruption, they could make a digital button that would unmount the OS from accessing the flash drive prior to it poping out of the flash drive or something?



MarioKart:

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nightsurge said:
I think flash memory would be a great possibility, but then it seems like it would be too easy to pirate, or perhaps too easy to corrupt the data by popping the flash drives in and out all the time.

The benefits of flash storage, though, would be:
Size: could fit 16GB of data on a 2 inch device. makes having a large collection of games much easier to organize
Speed: great data transfer rates using either SD or a USB flash drive.
Cost: low cost, as you said already.

The only other negative I could see is that right now flash media is topping out at around 16GB for USB flash drives. Perhaps in a year or two this number could have doubled or so, but that still leaves Blu-Ray with a data size advantage. I'm really not sure what they will use, but it's really a toss up between Blu-Ray, flash, HD-DVD, and downloads at the moment.

I don't think it will be all downloads, because not everyone will have fast enough internet and many people like to own the physical media, plus you can't "resell or trade" downloaded media so the used games would no longer be available.

 

 http://www.memorybits.co.uk/index.php?cPath=764&sort=2a&filter_id=263

Big enough for you? Only problem is cost, but that should decrease vey quickly.



I don't expect to see the next round of consoles tell late 2013. By then I see no reason why Microsoft would need a disc drive in the system. They have never supported Blu-ray, and their would be no point in doing so in the next generation. Microsoft will very likly just turn the next Xbox into a fully Digitaly system.

I think they will still cap the amount of space developers can use. Even with the speed of the internet at that time, and the larger size storage mediums it would be hard to see a download over 25 GB. It also is very dependent on how ISP's are going to react to huge amounts of downloads. The next Xbox will surly have IPTV, Movie/TV streaming, Music, and Games. That will add up to a lot of data being moved each month, even by a less tech savy family. In the US it may not be to bad with Comcasts 250GB cap, but other countrys in Eu, and Austrailia have caps around 25GB or less. Unless something changes ISP's could end up forcing MS to use a disc.

Another thing that may need to be taken into consideration is what Sony is going to do. So far we have not seen the differance in storage capacity cause any issues with the current generation. Over the next few years the problem may pop up, and we may see games like Madden, NBA 2K, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, and more utilising more than one disc on the 360. Some say this is no problem, but I think games like Madden and NBA could see nice gains in all aspects if the Blu-ray storage capacity was taken advantage of. If these games were on 2 discs that would seem a little out of hand.

If Sony comes with a PS3 that supports 400GB Blu-ray, then Microsoft will probably need to look at a way to get big games out on some kind of phyisical medium. Even if the next Xbox had 2TB of built in storage, that is only space for 4 or 5 epic experiances. If you don't believe that we will need that much space next gen just think about this. Both systems will be looking at 4GB of RAM. Streaming engines is now common practice in game development. That means 10GB levels are not out of the question next gen, making your average FPS or action game at least 100GB. Then you think about RPG's that could see 400GB.



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