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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Level 5 to OFFER themselves up to SONY if WKC SELLS WELL!!!!!

NJ5 on 07 December 2008
FilaBrasileiro said:
NJ5 said:
Ari_Gold said:
so sony keeps losing money for every ps3 sold, yet they'll buy Level 5. that doesn't make sense.

To be fair, Sony's behavior in the past years makes it seem like they're a financially strong company, which is why many people mistake them for one. That's what fuels the illusions that the party at SCE will continue through 2009 and beyond.

Well, never say never... it's still possible that the party will go on as it recently has, but it's increasingly unlikely.

Nothing like a good recession to take the water away from the beach. Now we can see who was naked under the high tide.

 

Sony has always been a financial strong company until about 3 years ago what with the buying of MGM and Blu Ray and Cell costs and stuff like that, I know you love hating Sony, but at least be realistic. And I'll bet you that SCE will continue through 2009 and beyond.

 

1-3% profit margins, massive exposure to currency risk and debt almost as bit as their cash base doesn't scream financially strong to me...

As Kasz216 said, I didn't say SCE would be terminated. Just their spending extravaganzas, and even then I may be wrong since Sony could decide that for some reason "the show must go on".

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

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FilaBrasileiro on 07 December 2008
NJ5 said:
FilaBrasileiro said:
NJ5 said:
Ari_Gold said:
so sony keeps losing money for every ps3 sold, yet they'll buy Level 5. that doesn't make sense.

To be fair, Sony's behavior in the past years makes it seem like they're a financially strong company, which is why many people mistake them for one. That's what fuels the illusions that the party at SCE will continue through 2009 and beyond.

Well, never say never... it's still possible that the party will go on as it recently has, but it's increasingly unlikely.

Nothing like a good recession to take the water away from the beach. Now we can see who was naked under the high tide.

 

Sony has always been a financial strong company until about 3 years ago what with the buying of MGM and Blu Ray and Cell costs and stuff like that, I know you love hating Sony, but at least be realistic. And I'll bet you that SCE will continue through 2009 and beyond.

 

1-3% profit margins, massive exposure to currency risk and debt almost as bit as their cash base doesn't scream financially strong to me...

As Kasz216 said, I didn't say SCE would be terminated. Just their spending extravaganzas, and even then I may be wrong since Sony could decide that for some reason "the show must go on".

 

Like I said they've been financially unstable in the last 3 years because of all these new ventures of theirs and because they are a Japanese company, Nintendo is not in trouble because of the Wii and DS phenom, but a lot of Japanese companies are in big trouble because of the strength of the yen. Sony has been financially strong in the past and you suggested like they've never been financially strong.

 

  I also misunderstood what you said about SCE and I apologize for that, but you are a pretty vocal Sony hater for whatever reason, so it's easy to misunderstand you when you make comments like that.

 



NJ5 on 07 December 2008

@FilaBrasileiro: Understood and no hard feelings for that.

My current opinion of Sony may lead me to focus on certain things at times, but my assessment of their position is much more rational than emotional. I have made it clear that even Nintendo could get affected by the same things, although that would happen much later and to a smaller extent.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Comrade Tovya on 07 December 2008
FilaBrasileiro said:
Comrade Tovya said:

 

First and foremost, it's not illegal. Just like if you tell a girl you are 14" and you are not, she can't win a judgment against you for lying about your manhood... she'll just kick you out of bed. I know law because I get sued about 20 times a year because of the business I'm in, so you are better off not arguing law with me.

Secondly, a good example is this very week... MS declared they had beat Sony in console sales 3:1 when the fact was that they beat them about 2:1. Not bad numbers by any means, but they were 500,000 consoles off in their sales numbers.

Manufacturers have always lied about sales numbers to cause buzz about their product. It's PR BS, and everyone does it. Hell, I have my employees do it everyday... it's part of business.


Your analogy doesn't really work because you're dealing with 2 people, not companies dealing with investors. if MS outsold Sony 2.5 - 1, then they just round up to the nearest integer, which is still legal, plus they can always say their "Europe" is different than "Sony" Europe. If they tried to say that with shipped numbers then it would be illegal, i.e. they could not say we sold 3 million and Sony sold 1 million, they would have to say we sold 2.5 million and Sony sold 1 million.


What you're suggesting is illegal, Namco cannot say they shipped 2 million copies of SCIV if they only shipped 1.6 million copies, that is illegal. No ifs about it.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but you are wrong.  MS likely did ship as many units as they did, but they did not sell as many to customers via their distributors as they implied. 

Secondly, it's absolutely not illegal to say you shipped more than you did.  It is quite embarassing for a company to wrong however.

It would be illegal for MS to say that Sony stole their technology if they don't have the proof to backup the claim.  An accusation requires proof or a civil suit can be brought against you for defimation of character at the very least. 

Saying you sold 30 million copies of a game you only sold 300,000 copies of is not illegal, it's just embarrassing.   You don't know anything about law... which is understandable, because not a lot of people do. 

It is immoral, don't get me wrong, but it's by no means illegal.  If you think it is, just look up civil code and prove me wrong.  Better yet, don't waste your time, I've been sued for similar things before.  A judge won't even look at the case unless you can provide undeniable proof that a companies misinformation had direct consequences on your products' bottom line... and even then a judge is likely to throw it out.



MarioKart:

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JGarret on 07 December 2008

Nj, I´m curious, what´s your opinion of Sony?

I mean, I´ve seen a few people here say you´re a big Sony hater, but since I don´t read many posts here, I don´t know why.



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FilaBrasileiro on 07 December 2008

Well with the strength of the yen, no Japanese company is really safe, including their biggest and biggest auto maker Toyota, I do hope the Euro and dollar gain some strength in 2k9, but IDK, they're saying this recession is gonna last deep in 2009.



NJ5 on 07 December 2008

@JGarret: Well this is offtopic so if we continue afterwards let's do it by PM. I stopped liking Sony since they started screwing up in terms of business (losing competitiveness and quality) but especially customer treatment (rootkit and related fiascos). It never had anything to do with the gaming market, since I didn't care much about consoles during the Playstation era (the little console gaming I did at the time was mostly on Playstation since their consoles were really popular). Ever since I started learning more and more about the console market, their decisions and early PR behavior regarding the PS3 didn't really help either :P

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

FilaBrasileiro on 07 December 2008
Comrade Tovya said:

 

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. MS likely did ship as many units as they did, but they did not sell as many to customers via their distributors as they implied.

Secondly, it's absolutely not illegal to say you shipped more than you did. It is quite embarassing for a company to wrong however.

It would be illegal for MS to say that Sony stole their technology if they don't have the proof to backup the claim. An accusation requires proof or a civil suit can be brought against you for defimation of character at the very least.

Saying you sold 30 million copies of a game you only sold 300,000 copies of is not illegal, it's just embarrassing. You don't know anything about law... which is understandable, because not a lot of people do.

It is immoral, don't get me wrong, but it's by no means illegal. If you think it is, just look up civil code and prove me wrong. Better yet, don't waste your time, I've been sued for similar things before. A judge won't even look at the case unless you can provide undeniable proof that a companies misinformation had direct consequences on your products' bottom line... and even then a judge is likely to throw it out.

Thinking about it, you might be right, it's illegal to put wrong information on the quaterly financials, i.e. what I said would be illegal if Sony put on their earning releases to investors that they shipped 40 million PS3s and made 1 billion on their gaming division. Since companies rarely put games shipped on their earning releases, then they can get away with that. Still I can't think of a time where a company said they shipped 2 million when they really didn't as you suggested.

 



FilaBrasileiro on 07 December 2008
NJ5 said:

@JGarret: Well this is offtopic so if we continue afterwards let's do it by PM. I stopped liking Sony since they started screwing up in terms of business (losing competitiveness and quality) but especially customer treatment (rootkit and related fiascos). It never had anything to do with the gaming market, since I didn't care much about consoles during the Playstation era (the little console gaming I did at the time was mostly on Playstation since their consoles were really popular). Ever since I started learning more and more about the console market, their decisions and early PR behavior regarding the PS3 didn't really help either :P

 

That's true for almost every company though, but you're right, this is OT.

 

 



Dallinor on 07 December 2008
NJ5 said:
FilaBrasileiro said:
NJ5 said:
Ari_Gold said:
so sony keeps losing money for every ps3 sold, yet they'll buy Level 5. that doesn't make sense.

To be fair, Sony's behavior in the past years makes it seem like they're a financially strong company, which is why many people mistake them for one. That's what fuels the illusions that the party at SCE will continue through 2009 and beyond.

Well, never say never... it's still possible that the party will go on as it recently has, but it's increasingly unlikely.

Nothing like a good recession to take the water away from the beach. Now we can see who was naked under the high tide.

 

Sony has always been a financial strong company until about 3 years ago what with the buying of MGM and Blu Ray and Cell costs and stuff like that, I know you love hating Sony, but at least be realistic. And I'll bet you that SCE will continue through 2009 and beyond.

 

1-3% profit margins, massive exposure to currency risk and debt almost as bit as their cash base doesn't scream financially strong to me...

As Kasz216 said, I didn't say SCE would be terminated. Just their spending extravaganzas, and even then I may be wrong since Sony could decide that for some reason "the show must go on".

 

Didn't Sony spend close to 3 billion this year alone investing in other companies, acquiring stakes, and even buying out a digital music company?

You seem to bring this topic up quite a lot (Sony's finances) so I presume you've done a lot more research then me (which is virtually none) and you're probably more buisness minded.

So why would a company in such trouble still be on a spending spree?