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Forums - Sales - The PS3 not performing as bad as some claim?

MikeB on 03 March 2007

@ robjoh Generally speaking I don't disagree with you, but as the PS2 still is a strong product and still generates Sony good profits, I don't think Sony should drop the PS2 this year, like Microsoft did with the original XBox when the XBox 360 was released.

Sony needs to move the PS2 crowd over to PS3 if they are going to get the increase sales that is needed to regain momentum and catch Wii and Xbox360.
I think timing is an important factor here. The market isn't ready yet to fully go PS3, but I think this may change in the course of christmas 2007 and 2008 when major titles have been released, like the new Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid. I do think a strong PS2 right now, does add value to the PS3 for the long run when the software emulation is mature enough. Fingers crossed for PS2 software scaling towards HDTV resolutions, maybe together with some additional enhancements.
At this point all three consols should have gotten price drops and redesigns.
Maybe, but considering there is much more cutting edge technology inside the PS3, I think there's relatively more room for redesign and cost reduction for the long run. IMO the Nintendo Wii already is somewhat of a redesigned GameCube. The XBox 360 can be cost reduced, but if they add a feature like HDMI 1.3 and maybe some other things to become more on par with the PS3 this may also result in additional production costs.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

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robjoh on 03 March 2007

MikeB said: @ robjoh Generally speaking I don't disagree with you, but as the PS2 still is a strong product and still generates Sony good profits, I don't think Sony should drop the PS2 this year, like Microsoft did with the original XBox when the XBox 360 was released.
Totally agree to drop the ps2 would be totally stupid, it is great product and will most probarbly sell great this year. I think that 2008 can be a decent year to, Wii seems to make the software devs going for Wii and PS2 ports. So PS2 will get some showelware too and they still have some really good games coming (GoW2)
I think timing is an important factor here. The market isn't ready yet to fully go PS3, but I think this may change in the course of christmas 2007 and 2008 when major titles have been released, like the new Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid.
Yes FF and MGS will drive sales, I am just currios how much, they a million sellers, but PS3 is still an expensive piece of equipment for the average joe. I honestly have no idea over how the sales will go during christmas 2007, but how it looks know PS3 isn't moving enough units now which means that Wii will get a guit good lead.
Maybe, but considering there is much more cutting edge technology inside the PS3, I think there's relatively more room for redesign and cost reduction for the long run. IMO the Nintendo Wii already is somewhat of a redesigned GameCube. The XBox 360 can be cost reduced, but if they add a feature like HDMI 1.3 and maybe some other things to become more on par with the PS3 this may also result in additional production costs.
Yes you might be corret here, but sony needs to lower themself a lot more. Comparing Wii with PS3 will show that Wii is sold with profit, sony is losing 200 USD. Of course software emulator instead of actual hardware will cut that price with 100 USD. As you also said Wii is an upscaled Cube, the cube was in the end sold for 99 USD. I would be surprissed if nintendo couldn't reach 150 USD at 2009 (if they want it). if sony has made a really god cost reduction and is down to 300 and 400 USD, it will still be very expensive compared to Wii. Of course games is very important here, the reason why PS2 outsold GC was that it had much more games. So for the moment it is all about who can bring out the games to the market, for a good value to the customar. I think Wii has succeded so far looking at that is is the only system that sold more than PS2 in januari.



 

 

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Stromprophet on 03 March 2007

Sintinel said: 1. Comparing Xbox360 to PS3 in Japan is completely meaningless. 2. PS1, PS2, and Xbox 360 were supply constrained at launch, PS3's have been collecting dust on store shelves since December. That those two points pretty much explain why this isn't 'news' at all, and in fact, yes, if people are claiming the PS3 is performing horribly, then yes, it is performing as bad as people claim. And keep in mind, both the PS2, Xbox360, and Wii were/are supply constrained, meaning they would have sold a hell of a lot more if they could have made more, while the PS3's are collecting more dust bunnies than Kwaad's Wii.
You know what. I've been completely impressed by Sony on the manufacturing side. The ability to eliminate the blue laser diode shortage completely, and it took 360 almost 6 months to get over their supply issues? Not to mention a known failure? (Red ring o death) I'm sorry, 360s launch was so much worse it's hilarious. And everyone is overlooking that of course. You mean like the 1/3 of 360 launch that sat on shelves in Japan? You can thank that for the hardware shortage and maybe ask them WTF they were thinking sending that many there when the US was then in shortage for months. The Wii IS NO LONGER SUPPLY CONSTRAINED. Easy to find and have been since early February. You need to get out more. And secondly, why should the Wii be supply constrained at all? It's old technology and easy to mass produce, maybe someone should hold Nintendo to some accountability for supplying their product. Explain then why 360 has never ever broken 300k in a single month according to NPD, outside of launch and the Holidays? In fact, it is selling earily familiar to the original box which should be considered a failure. Remember, M$ lost 4 billion dollars on the Xbox to establish a base to expand from, but they are only garnering old Xbox customers and not new ones.



Stromprophet on 03 March 2007

Here's where I stand on this. I've always been a playstation fan and probably always will be. Though I was a nintendo fan first. The PS3 has the goods. Why would you want a system that always takes the same approach to game development? I don't want to see the same thing, I want something that pushes new ideas. Almost every single developer said the PS2 was harder to develop for than all the other systems (DC, Xbox, GC). Developers like Hideo Kojima prefer that because they know they can create something unique on that system, it's harder to develop for but has more rewards for the work. http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=22858 There is an excellent link on what is in the PS3 as compared to the closest competitor (hardware wise) which would be the 360. The PS3 is introducing a new concept in programming which is actually more efficient. Is it harder? Yes it is because you have to program in parellel instead of thinking of programs in a series of steps. 360 has 3 traditional style CPU cores where as the PS3 has 1 CPU core and 6 SPEs that are capable of doing very powerful calculations. A lot of people would say the threading is better on the 360 along with a better graphics card. That is debatable right now. What is interesting is the SPEs can take loads off the CPU and the Graphics card, thus allowing those to focus on heavy lifting and on more specific tasks. For instance the graphics card doesn't need to do remedial graphics calculations and may use all of its power for rendering graphics, meanwhile the SPEs can do those calculations running in parallel at the same time. The 360 is actually the system with the bottlenecks and not the PS3. The PS3 ram is split and some people think that automatically means it doesn't have as much. The bottleneck in the 360 is due to the fact that its bandwidth is not additive because it is in series, where as the PS3 bandwidth may actually be used in parallel which actually has an additive effect. It's a good read. You should all look at it, because the PS3 truly does pack the good. Why otherwise would Sony sell a system at a 250 dollar loss? Because the equipment inside is so good and so expensive. Why otherwise would M$ come out with a new system? (Featuring HDMI and 120GB hard drive). IMO a mistake to do so because they are pissing on everyone who bought a 20GB premium at 400 dollars. The cell is still going to offer the superior computing power years down the road, at roughly 2 to 1 or a little bit more. The PS3 IMO is the longer lasting system. IBM, Toshiba, and Sony created the cell jointly and it is a beast. You can see it in the fact of a game like Motorstorm, which makes Gears of War look like garbage considering the small levels, limited activity on screen, and lack of environmental interactivity. The in game motorstorm looks like freaking movies. And that's just a few months after launch. Long term the cell will be able to be exploited much further than a simple tri-core will be. Adding the BD player added a lot of the cost difference you see. BUt hey, IMO that's worth is too. Because in Hi-def movies, Blu-ray is where its at. And anyone who has seen Hi-def TV would more than likely be interested in Hi-def movies. It's about the same difference going from DVD to Hi-def as it is going from TV to HDTV. Sony also has something the 2 competitors don't long term. Hi-def graphics with Motion. 360 doesn't have motion but has Hi-def, and Wii doesn't have Hi-def but has motion. I just think long term it gets the job done.



Stromprophet on 03 March 2007

shams said: This is silly. The stats clearly show that for a "3rd generation, highly anticipated" console - the PS3 is doing very badly in Japan, so-so in the US (and will probably do ok in Europe). The fact that unit sales are so far below shipment figures - and that PS3's are easy to find on shelves (almost anywhere) indicates this beyond any form of argument or discussion. End of story.
Why are 360s sales numbers so far below shipped? It well documented that M$ said they shipped 10.4 million by the end of 2006 when actual sales figures were much less, around 8.5 to 9 million maybe. EVERY COMPANY DOES THIS. Every single company has shipped more than they ever sell. PSP shipped 20 million sometime back in the summer but didn't sell 20 million till like December. Try picking on everyone for a change.



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HappySqurriel on 03 March 2007

Stromprophet said: This is silly. The stats clearly show that for a "3rd generation, highly anticipated" console - the PS3 is doing very badly in Japan, so-so in the US (and will probably do ok in Europe). The fact that unit sales are so far below shipment figures - and that PS3's are easy to find on shelves (almost anywhere) indicates this beyond any form of argument or discussion. End of story. shams said: Why are 360s sales numbers so far below shipped? It well documented that M$ said they shipped 10.4 million by the end of 2006 when actual sales figures were much less, around 8.5 to 9 million maybe. EVERY COMPANY DOES THIS. Every single company has shipped more than they ever sell. PSP shipped 20 million sometime back in the summer but didn't sell 20 million till like December. Try picking on everyone for a change.
If you want to know why Sony gets picked on for availability: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/02/10



Erik Aston on 03 March 2007

---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Wii IS NO LONGER SUPPLY CONSTRAINED. Easy to find and have been since early February. You need to get out more. And secondly, why should the Wii be supply constrained at all? It's old technology and easy to mass produce, maybe someone should hold Nintendo to some accountability for supplying their product. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, iTrackr has Wii at 14% availability in NA. It had been in the 20s back in early Febuary as you say, but the Feb 11th "relaunch" burnt off the built up supply, and availability has only just come back above 10%. Considering Nintendo are in the midst of a record launch, and contrary to popular belief, are producing a new product, they aren't doing too bad. They should make production increase their first concern though. PS3 availibility, in comparison, is 85%.



"[Our former customers] are unable to find software which they WANT to play."
"The way to solve this problem lies in how to communicate what kind of games [they CAN play]."

Satoru Iwata, Nintendo President. Only slightly paraphrased.

Diomedes1976 on 03 March 2007

I live in Spain and the Wii can be found in some stores ,and people arent exactly fighting over it to buy it .I am not saying those units remain there for months or weeks unsold ,but the fact is that you can go and buy them withour so much effort .If I were of the fanboy kind I would make some photos and then put them in internet in some blog with titulars like " Wii collecting dust in the shelves " but that isnt my cup of tea .



Diomedes1976 on 03 March 2007

mrstickball said: MikeB, I respect the fact that you feel the need to defend the PS3. I do agree that it gets attacked far too much. 2m units sold is very good for a system of it's price and such negative publicity. I have gone on record time and time again here and elsewhere to state my belief that the PS3 will beat out both the Wii and 360 in sales worldwide, due to good succuess in all 3 markets. However, to be fair, your comparison of the PS3 versus 360 launch is flawed. You are comparing merely the US and Japan - yes, a market both launched in. However, the 360 launched in Europe far before Sony will launch the PS3 in Europe. Due to this, your numbers are misguided and wrong. Microsoft shipped around 650k, 300k, and 100k during it's November-December launch window in all 3 territories, if not in less time. Due to this, your numbers are falsely leading to a better PS3 launch. It's obvious that the PS3 is by far the better hardware mover in Japan. However, Sony has had the advantage in your charts to only have 2 territories to worry about versus Microsoft's 3. This has escewed your numbers. Let's take a look at actual sales of the PS3 versus the 360 worldwide in the Nov-Dec-Jan period, to give a true depiction of how both systems manage to sell: _____________ 360 November: 375,250 - H/W in NA, 1,448,250 S/W in NA No EU or Japan sales PS3 November: 222,250 - H/W in NA, 261,500 S/W in NA 167,500 - H/W in Japan No EU sales _____________ In November, w/w, Sony leads by 14,500 units. MS leading S/W sales (US only) by 1,186,750 units. _____________ 360 December: 303,500 - H/W in NA, 1,390,000 S/W in NA 500,000 - H/W in Europe (300k at launch + 200k rest of month) http://www.johnporcaro.com/2006/01/xbox_news_from_.html 73,750 - H/W in Japan PS3 December: 537,500 H/W in NA, 1,240,000 S/W in NA 309,500 H/W in Japan No EU sales ________________ MS leads Sony by 15,750 units in H/W w/w, 1,336,750 units in S/W in the US ________________ 360 January: 269,000 - H/W in NA, 753,000 S/W in NA 130,000 - H/W in Europe (estimate) - Estimated by assuming Europe got 30% of MS's Q1 shipment(s) 32,750 - H/W in Japan PS3 January: 275,500 H/W in NA, 745,000 S/W in NA 146,250 H/W in Japan ________________ MS leads Sony by 25,750 H/W units, and 1,344,750 units of software. No spreadsheet working to show it, but here are the facts, if you want to be honest: The 360 matched the PS3 w/w in terms of hardware sales (roughly), and totally dominated it in terms of software in the US, and most likely abroad during launch. Even further, the 360 had a nice little lead being around for an extra year. Now, that might not matter, but as of right now, in the US, the 360 is out-selling the PS3 by about 3:1 since November. Quite a big discrepancy, eh? The 360 has also beat the PS3 w/w since launch due to great sales in the US (2.2m since November, versus PS3s 1.1m), and having Europe to offset PS3's sales in Japan. Again, I'm not a doom-and-gloom Sony anti-fan. I believe the PS3 will slowly gain momentum w/w throughout the year, and steadily improve shipments year over year for the next 3-4 years, top out, then have a gradual decline like the PS2 has. But if your wanting to argue sales, lets do it honestly and do worldwide, rather than hunt and pick sales not counting sold X360 systems in Europe, when it should be there. The PS3 isn't the PS2 - it lost the window to do business like it has done, and it's doubtful it'll be anywhere close to the PS1. Will it end up improving like the PS1 did over its lifetime? Yes, absolutely. However, at such a high pricepoint, the most we can hope for is the PS3 will match the PS2s REVENUE, but only about 60-66% of it's lifetime h/w sales.
Even if your data was allright (you are overestimating hardware sold in Europe in launch ) it would prove one thing ;the PS3 launch in 2 markets has been nearly the same numbers as the X360 in three markets .



stewacide on 04 March 2007

Diomedes1976 said: I live in Spain and the Wii can be found in some stores ,and people arent exactly fighting over it to buy it .I am not saying those units remain there for months or weeks unsold ,but the fact is that you can go and buy them withour so much effort .If I were of the fanboy kind I would make some photos and then put them in internet in some blog with titulars like " Wii collecting dust in the shelves " but that isnt my cup of tea .
That certainly doesn't seem to be the experience here in Canada! (and the US and Japan from everything I'd heard: I don't know about the rest of Europe). I can see how the Wii hype may be bypassing some relatively minor markets where the marketing machine might not be as finely tuned, but Nintendo's hit a home-run where it counts in Japan and North America. I think the Wii is pretty clearly the "it" brand in all of marketing right now (I remember a story, I think on this site, that it was the #2 more recognized newly launched brand in the US after KFC Famous Bowls :)