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Forums - Sales Discussion - Sony:we are 300,000 units ahead of X360 in Europe

Hyruken on 04 December 2008

As always Sony trying hard to run damage control and lets be honest the past 2 months there has been a lot of damage.
I can only speak for what it is like here in the UK not everywhere else but what the guy says simply does not add up. The PS3 has had it's floor space in Game/HMV/Zavvi and in some cases Blockbuster cut in half. The space has been taken over by 360 and Wii. If what he says is true then the companies would not do that as they would obviously feel confident of selling PS3 and it's items i.e games. The fact they have down-sized the area says they are not confident and they will sacrifice the space to make more sales on the other consoles. As far as i can tell the console is in decline all around here (London) and everywhere you go you see Wii and 360 billboards. Ironically the huge billboard that had Resistance 2 on it has now been changed to Gears of War 2. I personally felt that was a little harsh on R2.

So i think this is just more lies from the Sony camp and whatever they say they cannot hide from the fact they are getting spanked. We will see the NPD figures for NA next week and in that you would guess the 360 sold at bare minimum 400k more then PS3. But i think were really looking at a huge number gap, maybe even 1m units if the 360 has been undertracked and the PS3 overtracked. If that happens this will just dis-credit what he has said bigtime.



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Dodece on 04 December 2008

There are a number of ludicrous statements in this thread that need to be addressed in turn. The first of which is the source is credible. I am sorry to say this source is not credible. Far too often Sony has been caught red handed lying. I will gladly go and dig up some of the bodies to show you. So that I can illustrate my point vividly. Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me. However if your fool enough to take these statements at face value. I own a bridge in Brooklyn that I am looking to sell.

Another comment full of the bull is that they all lie. No they actually don't all lie for Nintendo and Microsoft it is the common practice to offer a no comment to rumors. Unless they are prepared to denounce them. In which case they are false. I have heard this before, but I have yet to see one link providing supporting evidence that either Nintendo or Microsoft have lied about their consoles or the games on them.

Getting to the point however there is no reason to lie. There is nothing wrong with offering a no comment. The problem for Sony is that they leak like mad, and they have zero credibility. Then need to fix the prior, and to resolve the second they need to stop lying. Which means they need to start firing their liars, and denounce them publicly.

Finally lying to consumers is not justified by self interest. There is no valid excuse to lie when you have the option of not commenting. There is no other way to put it then that lying to consumers is a heinous act. A act of premeditated evil. There are so many ways to have avoided this question. He could have even said pay no heed to rumors they are most often wrong, and that would have been perhaps ethically correct.

Stop excusing dishonest behavior. I swear if I see a price cut next spring I will probably start a email campaign that blasts any media that gives this guy an open soapbox that does not preface their article with what the liar told us today.



http://live.xbox.com/member/Dodece

TheSource on 04 December 2008

Guys Sony and Microsoft aren't contradicting each other. Here is how they define regions in this generation:

Sony:

PAL: Europe, Middle East, Africa, Asia outside Japan

Japan: Japan

Microsoft:

EMEA: Europe, Middle East, Africa (they specifically referred to it as EMEA)

Asia: Japan + small markets in Asia (Korea, Phillipines, Hong Kong, India, etc)

 

 



People are difficult to govern because they have too much knowledge.

When there are more laws, there are more criminals.

- Lao Tzu

Max King of the Wild on 04 December 2008
Hyruken said:
As always Sony trying hard to run damage control and lets be honest the past 2 months there has been a lot of damage.
I can only speak for what it is like here in the UK not everywhere else but what the guy says simply does not add up. The PS3 has had it's floor space in Game/HMV/Zavvi and in some cases Blockbuster cut in half. The space has been taken over by 360 and Wii. If what he says is true then the companies would not do that as they would obviously feel confident of selling PS3 and it's items i.e games. The fact they have down-sized the area says they are not confident and they will sacrifice the space to make more sales on the other consoles. As far as i can tell the console is in decline all around here (London) and everywhere you go you see Wii and 360 billboards. Ironically the huge billboard that had Resistance 2 on it has now been changed to Gears of War 2. I personally felt that was a little harsh on R2.

So i think this is just more lies from the Sony camp and whatever they say they cannot hide from the fact they are getting spanked. We will see the NPD figures for NA next week and in that you would guess the 360 sold at bare minimum 400k more then PS3. But i think were really looking at a huge number gap, maybe even 1m units if the 360 has been undertracked and the PS3 overtracked. If that happens this will just dis-credit what he has said bigtime.

 

 because reeves is definatly talking about NA in his statement....



Kasz216 on 04 December 2008
Groucho said:
Kasz216 said:
Groucho said:
Dianko said:
Well, Reeves mentions internal figures, while MS routinely mentions their data comes from Gfk/Chart-track, so is it possible that Sony has shipped more, but MS has actually sold more?

 

The differences between shipped and sold, for the X360 and PS3, will be meaningless.  No retail outlet will stockpile either of these consoles, unlike the Wii.  For all intensive purposes, shipped will be on par with sold, on a delayed basis.

Also remember that, once its shipped to the retailer, that's it, the retailer who ordered the shipment owns the console.  Shipped == sold, as far as Sony and MS are concerned.  The only way the retailer can recieve money back from Sony/MS at that point, is by means of honoring a manufacturer pricecut, where they are reimbursed the difference on units they still own.

Really?  At my work we return merchandise all the time we can't sell.  I know, i'm the one who sends it all back.  We don't sell videogame consoles, but we do sell various software and hardware products like DVD players and computer programs/games.

We've usually got a good 6 months to a year to return anything we can't sell.

Stores can typically return defective merchandise to the manufacturer, but they have to have a good reason (i.e. it has to actually be defective).  All the consoles are not supposed to be returned to the retailers at all, for this same reason (they don't like to rely upon the retailers evaluation of "defective").

Retail is about risk.  If it was all effectively consignment, retail would be basically a risk-free form of generating income, and everyone and their dog would sell consoles.  Usually the same thing applies to video games, DVDs, and music -- as a matter of fact, this is why the vast majority (if not all) of retailers will not allow you to return a game or DVD, except in exchange for another exact copy (then they return the one you brought back as "defective").  If retailers (like Target, Wal-mart, etc.) could simply return games to the manufacturer, without them being defective, you'd never see clearance items.  Ever.

If you're returning non-defective games and DVDs, you're almost assuredly breaking your contract with the manufacturer who sold you the item in the first place.  Usually a proof of purchase (and return) by a consumer is sufficient claim for an items "defective" status, from the manufacturer's viewpoint, even if its not actually defective.  Its not usually worth the time to check, in the case of games.  For consoles, it is worth the time... thus consumer returns are not supposed to go through retailers.

 

Well if we're breaking the contract boy do they not care since we send back craploads of stuff.

We just send it back with the invoice number it was listed on... often times 90% of what we purchased and they refund the money.

 



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Groucho on 04 December 2008
Kasz216 said:
Groucho said:

Stores can typically return defective merchandise to the manufacturer, but they have to have a good reason (i.e. it has to actually be defective).  All the consoles are not supposed to be returned to the retailers at all, for this same reason (they don't like to rely upon the retailers evaluation of "defective").

Retail is about risk.  If it was all effectively consignment, retail would be basically a risk-free form of generating income, and everyone and their dog would sell consoles.  Usually the same thing applies to video games, DVDs, and music -- as a matter of fact, this is why the vast majority (if not all) of retailers will not allow you to return a game or DVD, except in exchange for another exact copy (then they return the one you brought back as "defective").  If retailers (like Target, Wal-mart, etc.) could simply return games to the manufacturer, without them being defective, you'd never see clearance items.  Ever.

If you're returning non-defective games and DVDs, you're almost assuredly breaking your contract with the manufacturer who sold you the item in the first place.  Usually a proof of purchase (and return) by a consumer is sufficient claim for an items "defective" status, from the manufacturer's viewpoint, even if its not actually defective.  Its not usually worth the time to check, in the case of games.  For consoles, it is worth the time... thus consumer returns are not supposed to go through retailers.

 

Well if we're breaking the contract boy do they not care since we send back craploads of it.

We just send it back with the invoice number it was listed on... often times 90% of what we purchased and they refund the money.

 

 

Wow.  Where do you work, because I want in on a franchise. =)  I used to work in large-scale retail, so I'm pretty familiar with how it works.  Do you work in a small private business, or a big publicly traded one?

In any case, I think your situation is "unusual", to say the least.  It kinda sounds like you work in the kind of private operation where they likely try to refuse credit card transactions below a certain amount (say $5 USD) as well.  ;)  (this is also breaking a contract, with the credit card company, btw)



heruamon on 04 December 2008

The proof will be in the earning statements for the quarter.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

Hyruken on 04 December 2008
Max King of the Wild said:
Hyruken said:
As always Sony trying hard to run damage control and lets be honest the past 2 months there has been a lot of damage.
I can only speak for what it is like here in the UK not everywhere else but what the guy says simply does not add up. The PS3 has had it's floor space in Game/HMV/Zavvi and in some cases Blockbuster cut in half. The space has been taken over by 360 and Wii. If what he says is true then the companies would not do that as they would obviously feel confident of selling PS3 and it's items i.e games. The fact they have down-sized the area says they are not confident and they will sacrifice the space to make more sales on the other consoles. As far as i can tell the console is in decline all around here (London) and everywhere you go you see Wii and 360 billboards. Ironically the huge billboard that had Resistance 2 on it has now been changed to Gears of War 2. I personally felt that was a little harsh on R2.

So i think this is just more lies from the Sony camp and whatever they say they cannot hide from the fact they are getting spanked. We will see the NPD figures for NA next week and in that you would guess the 360 sold at bare minimum 400k more then PS3. But i think were really looking at a huge number gap, maybe even 1m units if the 360 has been undertracked and the PS3 overtracked. If that happens this will just dis-credit what he has said bigtime.

 

 because reeves is definatly talking about NA in his statement....

No the point i tried to make which obviously you didn't get is that Sony have no option but to come out and defend themselves right now. You got all over tv stuff about how bad the PS3 is doing in comparison to the other 2 consoles. They will try and claw back some of those feats other consoles are claiming, and in this instance it is the european numbers. Their numbers don't seem in line with what we are seeing here as if they have under 3rd of the shop then you would see huge volume of sales for the PS3 that would be noticable, at least a noticable as that of the 360. But it isn't. You go stand in a games shop here and i bet you will see very few PS3's go off the shelves, especially right now. So the point is for this guy's words to be true it would be visable to those in the country's and in UK as i said that just doesn't appear to be the case, at least here in London. So Sony want to say they are in front as it makes them look super great and that the 360 is not making any strides on the PS3, which again is just total bollocks.

So with the NA comment Sony know they have potentially a very bad next few weeks ahead media wise. You and i might read the sales on this site but the average Joe hasen't a clue. When the NPD figures come out it could be very very bad on the PS3, maybe even at max a 1m gap. If they came out after that and and said it people would just laugh at it. So that is why they said it now as you probably wont be hearing from them again until the price cut is announced which i bet will be sooner then later.

 



Max King of the Wild on 04 December 2008

Hyruken - UK has always followed the NA trend more than it has followed the Europe trend. In other words the ps3 does better on the mainland europe countries then in UK and NA. So you claiming reeves looses all credibility because of NPD NA numbers because it is similar to UK's trend is silly.

BTW you saying PES would have an opening week of 50k in Japan looses any credibility you have in the 2nd paragraph.



Kasz216 on 04 December 2008
Groucho said:
Kasz216 said:
Groucho said:

Stores can typically return defective merchandise to the manufacturer, but they have to have a good reason (i.e. it has to actually be defective).  All the consoles are not supposed to be returned to the retailers at all, for this same reason (they don't like to rely upon the retailers evaluation of "defective").

Retail is about risk.  If it was all effectively consignment, retail would be basically a risk-free form of generating income, and everyone and their dog would sell consoles.  Usually the same thing applies to video games, DVDs, and music -- as a matter of fact, this is why the vast majority (if not all) of retailers will not allow you to return a game or DVD, except in exchange for another exact copy (then they return the one you brought back as "defective").  If retailers (like Target, Wal-mart, etc.) could simply return games to the manufacturer, without them being defective, you'd never see clearance items.  Ever.

If you're returning non-defective games and DVDs, you're almost assuredly breaking your contract with the manufacturer who sold you the item in the first place.  Usually a proof of purchase (and return) by a consumer is sufficient claim for an items "defective" status, from the manufacturer's viewpoint, even if its not actually defective.  Its not usually worth the time to check, in the case of games.  For consoles, it is worth the time... thus consumer returns are not supposed to go through retailers.

 

Well if we're breaking the contract boy do they not care since we send back craploads of it.

We just send it back with the invoice number it was listed on... often times 90% of what we purchased and they refund the money.

 

 

Wow.  Where do you work, because I want in on a franchise. =)  I used to work in large-scale retail, so I'm pretty familiar with how it works.  Do you work in a small private business, or a big publicly traded one?

In any case, I think your situation is "unusual", to say the least.  It kinda sounds like you work in the kind of private operation where they likely try to refuse credit card transactions below a certain amount (say $5 USD) as well.  ;)  (this is also breaking a contract, with the credit card company, btw)


I work at a College store... we sell all sorts of electronics and such though... and it's fairly big.

No credit card transaction limits or anything. 

I mean they know for a fact that the merchandise isn't damaged or defective because we have a totally different return process for that.