I always say most of videogame fans CHOOSE whatever definition of "winning" they feel most comfortable with. They also choose to believe every product competing in the market is the same (same exact Target Group, same exact Life Cycle, etc) . The PS3 is an ELITE product. It has always been since launch and will continue to be until (and hopefully)

No.1 : As a videogame console enters the $299 price range (and the market could be ready for the introduction of a *new* elite console sooner after that, since Sony painstakingly proved there is a market for this kind of $500-elite console).

No. 2: Blu-ray format is massively adopted, which would make it all the more desirable, as well as cheaper to produce.

Latest reports point to Blu-ray almost turning around the corner in its adoption cycle. 2009 is expected to be THE year of High Definition and Bu-ray must be set to shine. HDTV sales are on the rise and should reach their highest levels ever next summer. You see, a PS3-price reduction is no emergency right now, it's just not part of its cycle, it's not about looking pretty, it's just buisness.

I think part of the problem is that Sony hasn't really taken an active role in phasing out the PS2.  There are too many dual release titles.  Either Sony should phase out the PS2 and drop the console price by $100.00, or just accept their role as #3.

I remember when the original XBOX was first released.  I was a Sony loyalist who thought that the XBOX would be a dumb fly-by-night console and would be forgotten, so I didn't buy one at first.  Then I played by buddy's XBOX, and the whole ease of the original XBOX Live just blew me away.  Hence I have been a dual campist every since.

I think if Sony waits too long, they'll find that MS lead in this generation is too great to overcome.  And when MS releases the next XBOX, people will buy it because they have not only become familiar with the brand, but also because people will want to carry over their friends list.

Sony's next wildcard is PLAYSTATION HOME becoming like LIVE... easy, convenient, and visually beautiful.  And then they need to drop the price, and rev up their PS2 phase out.  The PS3s biggest enemy at one time was their own console (PS2), and now that they've waited as long as they have, they are fighting not only the internal enemy of the PS2, but a MS company that seems to stop at nothing to continue to cement themselves in the console race as a leader for good.

   I've always found this idea kinda strange.  I have a PS2, but that doesn't mean I will ever get a PS3.  I would if I had more time and money.  As it is, I don't have enough time to play everything I want to on my two systems.

   But, I find it strange that some people think everyone is bound to a certain manufacturer.   I do belive that the majority of console sales in the world are not to the hardcore gamers (those that spend a lot of their time and energy on games).  I think the "casual" gamers that owned PS2 are getting Wii.  I don't believe the "casual" crowd feels bound to a certain brand, only the hardcore does. 

  And on top of that, to some people, Nintendo has the bigger name.  Friends I have call any system a Nintendo, including their PS2s.  My wife calls our Xbox 360 a Nintendo.  Often when I correct any of them, they respond with "Oh, I don't care." And actually, their responce helps support my belief that the "casual" crowd does not care about what brand they have.

Games but what about games? sales dont end in your hand but games do

This topic is a bit silly. I really am getting board of these threads. Just as long as soy, brings forth the great games, and keeps improving in their service i am good. What sony needs to do is concentrate on their profits and customer relations, and they'll make it through these tough times.

It really does not matter what position they come this Gen, they have made an excellent product, and the people who have bought it seem to really be happy with it (like me). Just enjoy your console, let Sony figure out what they need to do to survive, they have been in the business for decades, i am sure they know how to run their company and products better then you do.

Best 3rd place selling console EVER (likely better than most 2nd place consoles) is the equivalent of 'dead'?

Wow. You guys are harsh.

The PS3 will never die. It has a user base and can be profitable in the long run. However it will always remain third best after Wii and 360. They did it to themselves. Perhaps one day Sony can turn it around with the PS4.

Edit: Wrong topic

Square has not ignored the Wii nor nintendo.  They put that Chocobo game on Wii, and that Dragon Quest Swords game. And lets not forget about the DS. They got the remakes, but also a sequel to Crystal Chronicles. And they will be releasing DQ 9 sometime next year. That might be one of the best selling RPGs to date.

The fact of the matter is that most of their stuff sucks.  The console doesnt make much of a difference.  If Halo can sell 8 million on 360 so can a SE game. Build a good game and the masses will respond, unless its for PS3. They are the true poison on the market. They just cant make a huge hit.  But multi-platformers make it easier to get good all around sales.  Its no wonder FFXIII is also set to release on 360. it makes me wonder if the third party devs will continue to want to make exclusives for the console thus making it harder for them to push consoles.

What is it with people and Sony has to have 2nd place or else they will go out of business,who cares what place the console is in.