Yeah early 2008 is what I've heard for it as well, so pretty much a non-factor this holiday. Guitar Hero III has the name brand built up though, not sure how well Rock Band will really do.

Losing GTA4 is like the Wii losing Smash Brothers.

I don't see why people are arguing Wii numbers over the holidays... The only thing that will keep Nintendo from winning the rest of the year is their ability to keep up with demand.

Oh, and if we're to use E3 as a measuring stick of PS3 vs. 360... Here are the award-winners that release before 2008:

360 games:
-Halo 3
-Mass Effect
-Bioshock
-Virtua Fighter 5 (meh, already on PS3 but oh well)

PS3 games:
um... ah... er... well, there aren't any.

Multi-plats:
-Rock Band
-CoD4
-Assassin's Creed
-Burnout Paradise

While Uncharted and Heavenly Sword look good, what kind of numbers do you PS3 fans really expect them to put up? Despite being the end-all, be-all of gaming, the God of War series has not sold spectacularly and Heavenly Sword is in the same vein as the GoW series. GoWII sold about the same as KOTOR, the only difference being that the PS2 had a userbase the size of a European powerhouse while the Xbox had a userbase the size of a starving African nation amidst civil war.

Uncharted could be a sleeper but until more is known about it, I won't have much of an opinion on how it will sell. I don't expect R&C to do much. It might be a good game but I don't see it selling that well. Haze is another question mark.

Mass Effect will be this year's Oblivion and then some (due to the larger userbase and no PC version). It will be the Western RPG of the year, without a doubt. Bioware has proven they are in the elite RPG class with Bethesda. Bioshock keeps winning award after award. As its release nears, there is some serious hype building for this game. I think it could do 2m copies when all is said and done. Considering how it keeps mopping the floor with awards given by the people who have actually played the game, it should turn out just as good as it looks.

Overall, I just don't see how the PS3 is going to beat the 360 this holiday season. The 360 has more games, more award-winning games, a cheaper price, and a better library.

For me it is more a problem of target than a problem of quality

But, I agree, games that are coming in Xmas 2007 on Xbox360 seem to be very very good games.
But, for me, they are too much PC targeted, not enought accessible for casual.

We will see ...

 But quality is opinion based. Thats why you are getting so much heat. How this isnt obvious to you is beyond me. What you consider quality someone else considers garbage. So let me fix this for you.

Cheeper yet still getting out sold ww by a consol in a software drought, yahh. 360 also has the ohh so popular Red Ring, gamers just love it.

Okami and Shadow of colossus won award after award, alot of good it did them. If your going by hype Heavenly Uncharted Ratchet are as hyped as Bioshock or Mass Effect.

Overall i dont see how 360 can win this holiday with it beiong a failure in any markets while barly out selling the PS3 in plenty others. Even with its much cheeper price and bigger line up already available (Gears Forza Trusty Blue Dragon) the 360 is getting out sold in

UK
France
Spain
Italy

^ that is 210 million pop, all major most wealthy Euro markets exept Germany.

Theres also Japan but every one knows the 360 is a failure there.

And now its getting out sold in the USA where the PS3 is still $200 more expensive then the cheepest 360 and still in a software drought.

So Double the price of the Core in some markets and doing it on the shoulders of Resistance and Motorstorm PS3 is out selling the 360!

Opinions are like assholes, if you use a bidet it will be sprayed with water? They need to be wiped often with soft yet low grade paper?

Another note, from a previous thread: I suppose this takes GTA out of potential game of the year running. Though I doubt it would have made it anyway.

And yes, thank you all for arguing and proving that GTA was not the only game coming out. If it was, it would be a sad Christmas for everyone but Tiny Tim, but yes, there are games, yes, we will live, and yes, GTA will probably be missed by young males who dream of pressing triangle to steal a car.

Im sorry but that was fanboyish.

You're comparing Okami & SoTC, two quirky games that only appealed to an extreme minority of gamers against a wildly hyped FPS and RPG? If you don't see the fault in that logic...

I love how PS3 are hyping the one week of sales after a price drop against 7 months of data previous to that... If the 360 Pro drops to $300 USD (which it will by the end of the year), sales should pick up considerably. The system is nearly two years old and still hasn't received its first price drop... It's not surprising to see stagnating sales right now.

BTW, half of the four games you listed (Gears, TB, BD, Forza) haven't even released in the markets you're talking about. So I guess that will only BOOST 360 sales in the EU during the holidays, right? Unless you have some way of explaining that away, too...