I am a Wii owner. It sits next to my PS2 with my Xbox overhead. Put away but with easy access are other systems -- 30 or so.

I have been gaming longer than many people on this forum have been alive. (My avitar was my first system, bought in 1982).

But I am still unsure what "hardcore" means.

Does it mean playing M-rated games?

Does it mean playing games with dialog you would not want to share with your mother or sister?

Does it mean playing games with more violent scenes than I watched on network news of the Vietnam War?

Does it mean playing primarily FPS games?

Does it mean being in college and having time to play 10 hours a day?

OK, so I am a bit cranky in my old age (45 next month). But whatever happened to enjoying games for what they were?

It seems as if there are those who want the Wii to be all things to all people (which no console is). Then there are those who are dismissive of the Wii because it is not what they want in a console -- and they can't understand how others would not want what they want.

Not everyone likes jazz -- or rock -- or opera -- or country -- or urban -- or modern -- or pop ... (the list of music goes on and on).  But it is all music.

Not everyone likes blood-filled FPS games -- or puzzles -- or platforms -- or racers -- or sports -- or adventure -- or music games (the list of game types goes on and on). But they are all games.

It seems as if there are those who feel that they are owed something by Nintendo -- when in fact unless they are stockholders they are not. The Big N made a business decision to go a different direction than Sony and MS. It has tried to get others to follow and develop games in areas where it does not excel (i.e., more mature fare), but has not had much success.

All of this leads me back to my original question. What makes a gamer hardcore -- and must we really define who is hardcore. Or can we just agree to enjoy all the wonders of our hobby and move forward.

Mike from Morgantown

For the record, I enjoy casual games. I also found No More Heros to be a viseral experience. So I will play -- and enjoy -- almost anything.

The hardcore gamer is exactly the person who feels the need to use such term in an attempt to make their own prefrence seen to be brodened out to some niche that's been slighted by something else.

Basically it's a defense mechanism.

It can be alot of things. It can be used as a defense mechanism when other gamers (typically casual) are lamblasted for not being hardcore.

However, I view Hardcore gaming as a market niche. You'll often see varying attach rates for the same game on the PS3, 360, and Wii. This is because the players like different things. Hardcore gamers typically like RPGs, simulations, FPS, and action games that take 20+ hours to beat and have complicated control schemes. Most gamers in the market lose interest in these games before they get substantially deep into the game and would prefer a game that stresses multi player and instant satisfaction. These games tend to have more of an "arcade" quality rather than skill. What you typically find is that all markets interact somewhat and if a casual game player can find a "hardcore" game that they can connect with they will play it like a hardcore gamer and exhibit the traits of the hardcore gamer. Like most market segments there are no clean breaks.

All rated M games are Hardcore games
All E for Everyone games are for casuals

Everything in the middle just doesn't exist!!

People that liked Wii Music are true hardcore gamers. The rest are casuals =p

"Or can we just agree to enjoy all the wonders of our hobby and move forward."

I agree, is not necessary to create the Hardcore term, but that won't be changing because many gamers still think that all games should satisfy their needs.

In what context is the real question? IGN lists Square-Enix's latest RPG 'The Last Remnant' as strictly for the hardcore...in this context the definition would imply someone with a lot of experience in the particular genre and can't get enough of them and that a more casual audience would either;

a) not understand the game mechanics easily or
b) wait for higher rated games and give this one a miss.

hardcore=dead or alive extreame vollyball 2!

@mike_intellivision

You are confusing mature gaming with hardcore gaming. A common misconception among casual players. The most simple definition of a hardcore gamer that almost all hardcore gamers would agree to is the time element. More specifically a high average of hours played weekly. Somewhere between twenty and forty hours every week. What is played in those hours can be any game imaginable.

That does not mean there are not games that are explicitly directed at this market. Just as their are games directed at a casual market. However for a hardcore gamer those games can run the range. There are a group of hardcore gamers that dedicate months or years to shave a few seconds off of a play through sometimes of a thoroughly dated game. There are others who go through an almost zen like repetition in some games. Yes there are hardcore gamers that will do the same thing for thousands of hours. Those are usually shallow grinders. You have the collector a gamer that just burns through games. Who feels a year was wasted if they had not finished two hundred games.

I do not think hardcore gamers deride anyone, or hold a low opinion of another gamer. Do not confuse elitists with hardcore gamer either. A hardcore gamer is usually pretty obsessive about what they are doing to demean another gamer. Though they do tend to be easily unimpressed, or contrite about a casual gamers experience. I would not call it hateful just placating the way an adult is to a child.

If that's true, I don't want to be a hardcore gamer.

Seriously, I believe any definition of the term "hardcore" is moot.  Based on my observations, the definition usually gets redefined at will to arbitrarily exclude Nintendo's supporters.

@Soriku

There is a difference between a hardcore game, and hardcore gaming. You can game hardcore with any game. That does not necessarily mean the game was designed as a hardcore game. So yes you could play Wii music twenty hours a week, and you would be a hardcore gamer. Not necessarily an intriguing one, but a hardcore gamer none the less.

I once knew a hardcore gamer that played roughly forty hours a week, and all he did was look for hacks, bugs, and glitches. I honestly couldn't see why it amused him so, but it did. Yes he was a hardcore gamer just an exceedingly dull one. Hardcore could be said to be the same as obsessive. These days I barely tip the scales, but a few years ago I would easily rack up fifty hours a week.

I hope your not seriously considering playing Wii Music hardcore. That almost seems like the definition of a waste when that kind of energy could go into many far more rewarding games. I suppose you could be supremely dull if you want to. I wouldn't understand it, but if it floats your boat go for it.