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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Third parties pull a fast one and blame Nintendo for their own crappy games

noname2200 said:
Pristine20 said:
noname2200 said:
Pristine20 said:
bdbdbd said:

You're probably right but the difference here is that the DS is MILES ahead of PSP to yet the wii is not yet ahead of the PS360 which are ususally lumped together due to offering the same exact experience. The DS is much different from the psp like the wii is to the ps360 but in this case, the ps360 has the higher userbase still whereas the DS has more than double the psp's userbase with less piracy.

In conclusion, I think more 3rd parties would support the wii but due to western devs favoring power (especiallly PC devs), the wii is unlikely to ever get equal support. It would get it's best 3rd party support only from japan.

I can see that. I still think lots of Western developers will do more stuff for the Wii later on than they're doing now, but it won't be as dramatic.

 

You're right, they certainly can't all ignore the wii. It could even make 50% marketshare in 2009 but I still don't think their support for the wii would ever come close to PS360.

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

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vdoesntforgive said:
Pristine20 said:

 

The majority of games are sold by word of mouth. Cod4 is the perfect example of this. I never saw an advert for it on Tv. I knew I wanted it from videos on GT. Unfortunately, the new gamers the wii has brought into gaming are not the type that go to internet gaming websites to talk about games so they probably don't even know or care. These are not the type that know release dates, they walk to the store when they want a new experience and ask the store clerk for recommendation. Thus, the long legs of wii games. Also, many wii owners who are also fans of this genre also have a gaming PC or PS360, hence, the wii sales are dried up which I understand. However, this is also a justification for 3rd parties not to bring FPS games to wii.

As for other best selling ps360 titles like assassins creed, I really don't see how they could benefit from the wii's motion controls so it would boil down to graphics and power again (for things like # of people on screen) which would ultimately lead to the PS360 versions selling way more copies.

 

No it's not. It's justification for them to not expect gangbuster sales from downports.

 

Again, I'll get back to my original post, we just want some good games for the console. Not down ports, not up ports, not cheap lazy partyen gaems with toddlers on the case. Just some good, polished, quality games for the market that has been heavily neglected on the console. It's not asking for much.

 

But guess what? It won't happen any time soon, or atleast until they're near bankruptcy. As long as these third parties have people like you constantly defending their bullshit, it won't happen.

 

Why do you think they'll go bankrupt? Do you think that games like cod:Waw aren't making any money?



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

Pristine20 said:
noname2200 said:
Pristine20 said:
noname2200 said:
Pristine20 said:
bdbdbd said:

You're probably right but the difference here is that the DS is MILES ahead of PSP to yet the wii is not yet ahead of the PS360 which are ususally lumped together due to offering the same exact experience. The DS is much different from the psp like the wii is to the ps360 but in this case, the ps360 has the higher userbase still whereas the DS has more than double the psp's userbase with less piracy.

In conclusion, I think more 3rd parties would support the wii but due to western devs favoring power (especiallly PC devs), the wii is unlikely to ever get equal support. It would get it's best 3rd party support only from japan.

I can see that. I still think lots of Western developers will do more stuff for the Wii later on than they're doing now, but it won't be as dramatic.

 

You're right, they certainly can't all ignore the wii. It could even make 50% marketshare in 2009 but I still don't think their support for the wii would ever come close to PS360.

 

 

All right, I can't let that one slide. Why do you think that single games succeeding somehow overrides the fact that large third-party publishers are losing money hand over fist?



Coming from another angle, I see the PS3 and X360 as consoles that are trying to increase market share a)relative to last generation, b)trying to capture more PC gamers. The Wii is there to attract non-gamers to the gaming world. The demographics are totally different. I own all 3 console, but for the overall gaming 'experience' nothing competes with the HD consoles. Games audio tracts in DD (or lossless for a couple of PS3 games), games rendered in 720p (I play on a 133" screen and things look fantastic), the confort of slouching on a couch and not having to be hunched over with KB/mouse, and most importantly, on-line interactivity. Solo-player games are fun, but >75% of the games on Xbox/PS3 are geared towards on-line play, and that is where the most fun is. Bringing up examples of CoD:WaW, sales would be pitiful if there was a weak on-line community and the game relied on the campaign (Wii), but are robust with a healthy on-line community as that is what most people play. Similarly, even with nearly 40 million Wii's, a large % of people bought the Wii because of the novalty, its interface, and less intimidating gameplay. There is nothing intimidating about playing MarioCart, but there is significant intimidation playing Forza 2 or GT:P (for the average Wii owner).

Thus, porting games is not the solution. I will NEVER buy a multiplatform game on the Wii. The only games I buy are exclusives, and even then only for my kids. Every developer is looking for the next 'Halo' or 'Gears of War', but the reality is that those are exclusives. In the last few years the only new IP from a 3rd party that had made significant sales was Assassins Creed. Bioshock did well, but was exclusive for a year (and is selling poorly on the PS3). Thus, why spend all the R&D on a Wii game, even with a large userbase, as the attach rates are very low especially for non-Nintendo software. The lead platforms will always be Xbox (as it is close to PC) and then PS3. Nintendo needs to open their wallets and fund 3rd party developers to make a Wii game (like MS did with Epic in making GoW). It will be risky, as who know how it will turn out, but it ensures a future for when the Wii-HD comes out. The only problem will be that MS and Sony will already have their next consoles in the pipeline, as they will likely be media centers/gaming machines. Nintendo has to skip a generation to catch up.



Pristine20 said:

 

Why do you think they'll go bankrupt? Do you think that games like cod:Waw aren't making any money?

 

I'm not talking about Activision. They know how to do business. Generally. Though bankruptcy was just scare-mongering on my part. (NOT FOR MIDWAY THOUGH)

 

Supporting the HD twins and ignoring everything else is not a sustainable  business option, and it's already started biting alot of publishers in the arse for it.



 

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Khuutra said:
Pristine20 said:
noname2200 said:
Pristine20 said:
noname2200 said:
Pristine20 said:
bdbdbd said:

You're probably right but the difference here is that the DS is MILES ahead of PSP to yet the wii is not yet ahead of the PS360 which are ususally lumped together due to offering the same exact experience. The DS is much different from the psp like the wii is to the ps360 but in this case, the ps360 has the higher userbase still whereas the DS has more than double the psp's userbase with less piracy.

In conclusion, I think more 3rd parties would support the wii but due to western devs favoring power (especiallly PC devs), the wii is unlikely to ever get equal support. It would get it's best 3rd party support only from japan.

I can see that. I still think lots of Western developers will do more stuff for the Wii later on than they're doing now, but it won't be as dramatic.

 

You're right, they certainly can't all ignore the wii. It could even make 50% marketshare in 2009 but I still don't think their support for the wii would ever come close to PS360.

 

 

All right, I can't let that one slide. Why do you think that single games succeeding somehow overrides the fact that large third-party publishers are losing money hand over fist?

 

Perhaps the global economic slump also has something to do with it.

You guys think only by jumping on the wii bandwagon is success possible but thats isn't really true. it helps if they released quality title on the wii but the formula they have been using to succeed isn't very wii-compatible. Read my previous posts not just the last one.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

vdoesntforgive said:
Pristine20 said:

 

Why do you think they'll go bankrupt? Do you think that games like cod:Waw aren't making any money?

 

I'm not talking about Activision. They know how to do business. Generally. Though bankruptcy was just scare-mongering on my part. (NOT FOR MIDWAY THOUGH)

 

Supporting the HD twins and ignoring everything else is not a sustainable  business option, and it's already started biting alot of publishers in the arse for it.

Perhaps other 3rd parties are copying activision? Besides porting Guitar hero, what marvelous titles have they published on wii?

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

Everything released on Wii has to go through Nintendo anyway, so if they wanted to stop the shovelware avalanche, they could.

Instead, they just take the cash.



PSN - hanafuda

Khuutra said:
Pristine20 said:

You're right, they certainly can't all ignore the wii. It could even make 50% marketshare in 2009 but I still don't think their support for the wii would ever come close to PS360.

 

 

All right, I can't let that one slide. Why do you think that single games succeeding somehow overrides the fact that large third-party publishers are losing money hand over fist?

In fairness to Pristine20, he wasn't saying here that it's a good idea that developers continue to do this, just that many of them will. To which I must reluctantly agree. I don't see it as a sustainable enterprise either, and I've made my case about that many times, but judging by the rapidly increasing rate at which developers are going under because they're too stubborn or invested to abandon the old ways, I'd have to say that I can see it happening.

Doesn't mean it's smart, or that I like it. And I still think the balance will change more towards the Wii, as time goes on. But the point is plausible, although not certain.

 



Pristine20 said:

Perhaps other 3rd parties are copying activision? Besides porting Guitar hero, what marvelous titles have they published on wii?

 

 

Some would say COD, I'm going to go ahead and say none.

 

My point is, they have GH helping to keep them afloat. They have COD helping them to keep them afloat. They've even got WoW, for christ sake, they're set. Not everyone has a FPS that sells 10+ million copies. That's my point.

 

What's your point?