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do some of you people think the ps3 will stay $399 forever!? all sony have to do is the cut the prices and the tables will be turned around instantly, then you will get the same dickheads that will say "is the 360 doomed?"

just like in 2007 when ps3 looked like it had no chance with such a shitty launch and such a shitty game lineup but somehow with a price cut it actually managed to beat 360 for the year and then starting beating 360 in america starting this year and was beating it ever since and what was everyone saying?

YES THATS RIGHT everyone was saying xbox 360 dead again!! look the point is price cuts give boosts, price cuts to $199 and not forgetting europe £129.99 give major long lasting boosts but the ps3 is no where near at a affordable price point for everyone. at $299 im sure everyone who wants one will be able to just stretch out and get one but at $399 you mjst really really want one to shell out that amount of money! after a ps3 price cut you will once again see the ps3 with huge sales and once again I WILL BE WAITING FOR THOSE SAME DAMN "DEAD" PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!



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Dodece said:
I think the Sony loyalists have found a messiah in price drops. Unfortunately due to financial constraints this particular messiah has been crucified. I think the unwavering faith has brought about a clearly myopic hindsight. Sony has been more then aggressive. They have been downright foolhardy. They started with a heavy loss leading formula, and in under a year slashed the suggested retail price of their product by a third. The couch analysts on these forums have decided that these measures are not only common, but entirely feasible. Yet they also think that Microsoft cannot do exactly the same thing. They quote Microsoft's losses as proof that Microsoft must make up that deficit, and then behave as if Sony does not.

This is the reality Sony is primarily an electronics company that focuses on high end hardware. The global economic woes do them no favors, and in fact almost guarantee that once profitable divisions at Sony will not be profitable. This was Stringers strategy to focus the company back towards its historical strengths. Unfortunately this also means that the company as a whole is more vulnerable when their core strengths become an economic liability.

To those posters with unwavering faith I ask you a simply question. Where is the money for these price cuts to come from? I mean if most every division at Sony is probably going to lose money who exactly is going to foot this bill. More to the point if the gaming division actually starts to bring in serious cash flow what exactly is to encourage Sony to turn down the flow. They need every dollar they can get. Where is the rational of walking away from the money you need.

There are two opposing trains of thought that result in the same outcome. Sony can either not afford to incur more losses so they cannot cut the price. Sony is actually being profitable on hardware which they need to make their bottom line. No matter how you parse it the PS3 is probably the most price entrenched product on the Sony catalog.

Your thinking about winning a console war at all costs. When Sony must be thinking how can we stay afloat. You are suggesting that Sony must be reckless, and self destructive to wage a war they cannot win, and that is the biggest truth. Sony cannot win, and in fact has no hope of doing so. All they can do is lick their wounds, and try to leave this generation with some future prospects.

The problem isn't just that Microsoft has more money. The problem is that Microsoft has had the fool proof strategy all along. Their online service is the key to their strength. This is quite literally a money generating engine, and the longer it runs the more money it churns out. Microsoft can literally loss lead an entire generation with this model, and still have positive profitability.

That is why it is futile for Sony. The longer a generation goes on the more powerful Microsoft becomes. Six months ago Microsoft may have had ten million gold members. Right now they may have thirteen million. Next holiday season they may have twenty million gold members each paying fifty dollars a year. Do the math they could be grossing a billion annually from Live alone. Before hardware profits, and licensing fees. Let alone the first party developer payout.

The faithful are talking about Sony just getting by. Meanwhile Microsoft will be churning out over a billion dollars in profit annually. Who has the margin to do the most harm. Once Microsoft meets that kind of critical mass the fight is all but hopeless for Sony. The 360 can literally be sold at a hundred dollars by the next holiday season. For Microsoft the money isn't in the hardware its in their gold service.

I read Sony will not let it happen, and I say how the hell can they stop this kind of perpetual motion machine. Eventually Microsoft will rest complete dominance over Sony. The price point is not enough for Sony to turn the tide. What Sony needs to do is begin charging for their online service. That is a stable secondary revenue stream. To have even a hope of winning Sony needs the money to wage this kind of war, and that isn't going to come from eating scraps.

 

ok first of all, who the hell are you? SONYS dad? second of all i am going to remember this post for a later time.



Dodece said:
I think the Sony loyalists have found a messiah in price drops. Unfortunately due to financial constraints this particular messiah has been crucified. I think the unwavering faith has brought about a clearly myopic hindsight. Sony has been more then aggressive. They have been downright foolhardy. They started with a heavy loss leading formula, and in under a year slashed the suggested retail price of their product by a third. The couch analysts on these forums have decided that these measures are not only common, but entirely feasible. Yet they also think that Microsoft cannot do exactly the same thing. They quote Microsoft's losses as proof that Microsoft must make up that deficit, and then behave as if Sony does not.

This is the reality Sony is primarily an electronics company that focuses on high end hardware. The global economic woes do them no favors, and in fact almost guarantee that once profitable divisions at Sony will not be profitable. This was Stringers strategy to focus the company back towards its historical strengths. Unfortunately this also means that the company as a whole is more vulnerable when their core strengths become an economic liability.

To those posters with unwavering faith I ask you a simply question. Where is the money for these price cuts to come from? I mean if most every division at Sony is probably going to lose money who exactly is going to foot this bill. More to the point if the gaming division actually starts to bring in serious cash flow what exactly is to encourage Sony to turn down the flow. They need every dollar they can get. Where is the rational of walking away from the money you need.

There are two opposing trains of thought that result in the same outcome. Sony can either not afford to incur more losses so they cannot cut the price. Sony is actually being profitable on hardware which they need to make their bottom line. No matter how you parse it the PS3 is probably the most price entrenched product on the Sony catalog.

Your thinking about winning a console war at all costs. When Sony must be thinking how can we stay afloat. You are suggesting that Sony must be reckless, and self destructive to wage a war they cannot win, and that is the biggest truth. Sony cannot win, and in fact has no hope of doing so. All they can do is lick their wounds, and try to leave this generation with some future prospects.

The problem isn't just that Microsoft has more money. The problem is that Microsoft has had the fool proof strategy all along. Their online service is the key to their strength. This is quite literally a money generating engine, and the longer it runs the more money it churns out. Microsoft can literally loss lead an entire generation with this model, and still have positive profitability.

That is why it is futile for Sony. The longer a generation goes on the more powerful Microsoft becomes. Six months ago Microsoft may have had ten million gold members. Right now they may have thirteen million. Next holiday season they may have twenty million gold members each paying fifty dollars a year. Do the math they could be grossing a billion annually from Live alone. Before hardware profits, and licensing fees. Let alone the first party developer payout.

The faithful are talking about Sony just getting by. Meanwhile Microsoft will be churning out over a billion dollars in profit annually. Who has the margin to do the most harm. Once Microsoft meets that kind of critical mass the fight is all but hopeless for Sony. The 360 can literally be sold at a hundred dollars by the next holiday season. For Microsoft the money isn't in the hardware its in their gold service.

I read Sony will not let it happen, and I say how the hell can they stop this kind of perpetual motion machine. Eventually Microsoft will rest complete dominance over Sony. The price point is not enough for Sony to turn the tide. What Sony needs to do is begin charging for their online service. That is a stable secondary revenue stream. To have even a hope of winning Sony needs the money to wage this kind of war, and that isn't going to come from eating scraps.

Good post: Unfortunately they have a problem. Not moving in the U.S early next year will cost them that territory. Microsoft would simply walk away from them, PSN is of little value if most of your friends use Xbox Live. Eventually its just the fact that so many Xbox 360s have been sold in comparison to PS3s that people just buy 360s because thats what their friends have etc.

Others is a different story, they cannot walk away with it like Microsoft can with America because the install bases are so close. The same applies to Microsoft here and really they can afford to wait in this market to do a price cut.

 



Tease.

Kantor said:

New example: Shadow of the Colossus. Shouldn't anybody who is 'hardcore' have played that?

It's about as far from traditional as is possible. It can't really be put into words.

If Wii Fit is revolutionary, Singstar is revolutionary. Guitar Hero is revolutionary. They are not for everyone, they are aimed at a specific audience.

 

 

I wouldn't want to derail the thread, but SotC is not necessarily "hardcore". Heck, the usual split "hardcore" vs. "casual" so many people talk so much is just inadequate. The demographics of the video game market are quite complex.





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).

@Squilliam

I ask this particularly valid question. Does Sony need to win this. This generation already has the telltale signs of being a Pyrrhic victory for Sony. They have already lost more then they could win. Even if they capture the European market it could very well be a blood letting the gaming division could not afford.

There must be a point where one has to make one of three choices retreat, stand, or attack. Sony has been on the attack so long one has to imagine they need to enter into a defensive frame of mind. Protect their assets, and not incur greater losses. Eventually Sony must find a way to be profitable with their gaming division. Not just profitable, but profitable enough to help carry divisions that are going to be going through hard times.

Perhaps I am six months ahead of the curve, but I think if Sony continues to be financially reckless the result will be far more dire then merely coming in third for a generation. I honestly cannot conceive as to how Sony will justify more price cutting to investors that are already obviously very upset in regards to the gaming division.

I am coming from the mindset that if Sony just finds a way to be more profitable that is the victory they need. Market penetration isn't the panacea they need. They need to start making back some serious cash.



Around the Network
Dodece said:
I think the Sony loyalists have found a messiah in price drops. Unfortunately due to financial constraints this particular messiah has been crucified. I think the unwavering faith has brought about a clearly myopic hindsight. Sony has been more then aggressive. They have been downright foolhardy. They started with a heavy loss leading formula, and in under a year slashed the suggested retail price of their product by a third. The couch analysts on these forums have decided that these measures are not only common, but entirely feasible. Yet they also think that Microsoft cannot do exactly the same thing. They quote Microsoft's losses as proof that Microsoft must make up that deficit, and then behave as if Sony does not.

This is the reality Sony is primarily an electronics company that focuses on high end hardware. The global economic woes do them no favors, and in fact almost guarantee that once profitable divisions at Sony will not be profitable. This was Stringers strategy to focus the company back towards its historical strengths. Unfortunately this also means that the company as a whole is more vulnerable when their core strengths become an economic liability.

To those posters with unwavering faith I ask you a simply question. Where is the money for these price cuts to come from? I mean if most every division at Sony is probably going to lose money who exactly is going to foot this bill. More to the point if the gaming division actually starts to bring in serious cash flow what exactly is to encourage Sony to turn down the flow. They need every dollar they can get. Where is the rational of walking away from the money you need.

There are two opposing trains of thought that result in the same outcome. Sony can either not afford to incur more losses so they cannot cut the price. Sony is actually being profitable on hardware which they need to make their bottom line. No matter how you parse it the PS3 is probably the most price entrenched product on the Sony catalog.

Your thinking about winning a console war at all costs. When Sony must be thinking how can we stay afloat. You are suggesting that Sony must be reckless, and self destructive to wage a war they cannot win, and that is the biggest truth. Sony cannot win, and in fact has no hope of doing so. All they can do is lick their wounds, and try to leave this generation with some future prospects.

The problem isn't just that Microsoft has more money. The problem is that Microsoft has had the fool proof strategy all along. Their online service is the key to their strength. This is quite literally a money generating engine, and the longer it runs the more money it churns out. Microsoft can literally loss lead an entire generation with this model, and still have positive profitability.

That is why it is futile for Sony. The longer a generation goes on the more powerful Microsoft becomes. Six months ago Microsoft may have had ten million gold members. Right now they may have thirteen million. Next holiday season they may have twenty million gold members each paying fifty dollars a year. Do the math they could be grossing a billion annually from Live alone. Before hardware profits, and licensing fees. Let alone the first party developer payout.

The faithful are talking about Sony just getting by. Meanwhile Microsoft will be churning out over a billion dollars in profit annually. Who has the margin to do the most harm. Once Microsoft meets that kind of critical mass the fight is all but hopeless for Sony. The 360 can literally be sold at a hundred dollars by the next holiday season. For Microsoft the money isn't in the hardware its in their gold service.

I read Sony will not let it happen, and I say how the hell can they stop this kind of perpetual motion machine. Eventually Microsoft will rest complete dominance over Sony. The price point is not enough for Sony to turn the tide. What Sony needs to do is begin charging for their online service. That is a stable secondary revenue stream. To have even a hope of winning Sony needs the money to wage this kind of war, and that isn't going to come from eating scraps.

 

Even with Live Subscriptions, MS's gaming division isn't anywhere near making $1 Billion/yr in profits, especially once you factor in the price cuts, their rather limited first party, and all of the money that they pay for third-party support.

The idea that MS's strategy is fool proof is absurd to say the least. The 360's sales have never been anything spectacular. Sure, it's selling well now, but this is the holiday season right after price cuts and the release of their biggest IP. Those sales will return to 50-70K per week in US/EU and <10K per week in Japan come January. A console doesn't succeed just by selling well during the holidays. It succeeds by doing well all year long, and that's something the 360 has yet to accomplish. The PSP has actually done a better job of having strong sales throughout the year.

No matter how you slice it, the 360 still appeals almost exclusively to core and hardcore gamers. This is why it(along with the PS3) gets destroyed every week in hardware sales by the Wii. The 360 simply lacks mass appeal. Sure, it may sell a lot of software, but that's helping the third-parties more than it's helping MS.

The best case scenario for MS this generation is to finish a distant, unprofitable second just a few million ahead of the third place console, which is exactly where they were last generation.

 

 

 



 

Consoles owned: Saturn, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, PSP, DS, PS3

@Lord N

Excerpt from E3 this year. July 15-17

When it comes to Xbox Live, a new member joins every 5 seconds, according to Microsoft, which now has over 12 million members, who have between them spent "more than one billion dollars on Xbox Live."

Since which time Microsoft has added an additional 3,271,058 in console sales. Doing the math I reach over sixty percent attach rate. Were this rate to hold true. The 360 would need a install base of 33,000,000 consoles to achieve one billion dollars gross from fees alone. Before all other revenue streams.

Absurd I do not think so. I think Microsoft can reach 33 million units sold by next holiday season. That is all of ten million units, and Microsoft moved over three million units in the last five months. Basically they are moving an average of 650,000 units monthly that makes eight million units, and that is not even including all of the lower price point, or a holiday surge. Ten million units is fairly certain.

Come back with numbers not opinions. I want to see some numbers as to why my calculations are absurd.



Dodece said:
@Lord N

Excerpt from E3 this year. July 15-17

When it comes to Xbox Live, a new member joins every 5 seconds, according to Microsoft, which now has over 12 million members, who have between them spent "more than one billion dollars on Xbox Live."

Since which time Microsoft has added an additional 3,271,058 in console sales. Doing the math I reach over sixty percent attach rate. Were this rate to hold true. The 360 would need a install base of 33,000,000 consoles to achieve one billion dollars gross from fees alone. Before all other revenue streams.

Absurd I do not think so. I think Microsoft can reach 33 million units sold by next holiday season. That is all of ten million units, and Microsoft moved over three million units in the last five months. Basically they are moving an average of 650,000 units monthly that makes eight million units, and that is not even including all of the lower price point, or a holiday surge. Ten million units is fairly certain.

Come back with numbers not opinions. I want to see some numbers as to why my calculations are absurd.

 

1) Revenue does not mean profits. I think you've been coming here long enough to know this. Furthermore, all of those subscriptions are not gold accounts. Some are indeed silver accounts. The most profit MS has ever seen in a single quarter was 4th Q 2007, which saw about $315 million. That was nearly wiped out with their $200 miilion loss for Q2 2008(which was most likely from all the money they fronted for FFXIII).

2) My comment regarding absurdity has nothing to do with calculations, it had to do with your statement that MS's strategy is fool proof, something that you only supported with banter about its online service, which I've already rebutted. I've already given plenty of reasons as to why it's not fool proof.

The 360's most profitable quarter outside of the holiday season was about $150 million, and yet, you are stating that somehow it's going to turn a profit of $1BN/yr in its next fiscal year. What I want to see is your reasoning behind this that involves something other than their online service.

 

 

 



 

Consoles owned: Saturn, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, PSP, DS, PS3

SpartanFX said:

10 bucks bet that we will see 100 "x360 dead"threads when Sony cuts the price in 09 and get big spikes.

 

I was thinking that aswell. But oh well. I think PS3 is selling quite well considering that both systems cores are 200$ appart. And the price is pretty much 2:1 :S.



4 ≈ One

Wuts the point for fighting for second place its like fighting over the scraps from the table, both are gonna starve for the time being.



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