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Forums - Sales Discussion - The reason why PS2 was loved by game companies

Aprisaiden on 13 November 2008
S.T.A.G.E. said:
shanbcn said:

After looking at best selling PS2 games, i reliased how happy companies must have been last gen because they didn't need 90+ on metacritic to sell games. Here is some facts.

Need for Speed 1 and 2 sold 6.5 million each, can you imagine NFS selling this amount even on both 360 and PS3?

Crash Bandicoot sold 5 million despite horrible reviews, and now many people didn't know when it released this gen.

Spiderman sold 4.33 million.

Simpsons: Hit and Run sold 4.24 million.

And the list is huge with 200+ million sellers.

 

I think metacritic and gamerankings have become to important this gen and with rising cost many dev just don't want to take risks with new IPs.

 

Reasons the PS2 sold well:

- Came out a year ahead of the Xbox

- Was $100 cheaper straight out of the gate

- Was cheaper to develop for

- Had the best 3rd party games under heavy lockdown.

- Had timed exclusivity under heavy lockdown.

 

Hmmm....Sounds very similar to the Xbox 360 wouldn't you think? Except the Xbox 360 came out $200 cheaper than the PS3. The gameplan sounds strikingly similar.

 

While PS2 did have those advantages don't forget.

 - came out 1 year AFTER the Dreamcast
 - Was $299 untill Xbox/Gamecube came out and it was due for a price drop... and the Gamecube launched at $199.
 - It was harder to develop for -- and only cheaper since engines had already been built.
 - Best 3rd party games were on lock down cause PS2 had already approx the lifetime sales of the Xbox / gamecube.

 While i agree Microsoft basically copied SONY's plan for last gen, their is still some major differences ...


 Anyway i think we can all agree Nintendo and Microsoft basically had the time of their lives after the $599 annoucment ... anyone who looked at the industry for more than 2 seconds saw how the SONY hype train crashed and burnt that day -- afterall their is only so many people prepared to pay $599 for a console. (imagine the Wii vs. $299 PS3 without blu-ray / slightly weaker spec's but launched holiday 2005... i have the feeling the PS3 might of won due to brand name)

 Overall who else can't wait untill post christmas sales so we can see how each console is doing. Afterall this gen started is 2006 - Ongoing(/2009)... and it can't be long untill the next gen are set into motion by the annoucment of PSP2 / DS2... (2010?)



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S.T.A.G.E. on 13 November 2008
Kantor said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
shanbcn said:

After looking at best selling PS2 games, i reliased how happy companies must have been last gen because they didn't need 90+ on metacritic to sell games. Here is some facts.

Need for Speed 1 and 2 sold 6.5 million each, can you imagine NFS selling this amount even on both 360 and PS3?

Crash Bandicoot sold 5 million despite horrible reviews, and now many people didn't know when it released this gen.

Spiderman sold 4.33 million.

Simpsons: Hit and Run sold 4.24 million.

And the list is huge with 200+ million sellers.

 

I think metacritic and gamerankings have become to important this gen and with rising cost many dev just don't want to take risks with new IPs.

 

Reasons the PS2 sold well:

- Came out a year ahead of the Xbox

- Was $100 cheaper straight out of the gate

- Was cheaper to develop for

- Had the best 3rd party games under heavy lockdown.

- Had timed exclusivity under heavy lockdown.

 

Hmmm....Sounds very similar to the Xbox 360 wouldn't you think? Except the Xbox 360 came out $200 cheaper than the PS3. The gameplan sounds strikingly similar.

 

You're forgetting two HUGE factors:

-Had the best first/second party studios

-Was made by Sony

Why is it that despite the 360's game library being equal or superior to the PS3's, being half the price, having better online, the PS3 comes close in sales?

1) Blu-ray player

2) Future Potential

3) Made by Sony

4) People prefer the games library

I personally got it for all four of those.

The PS2 still has better games than any other console by a mile. You had a free choice of several games from EVERY genre which were excellent, even more which were great. Sure, it didn't have great 'hardware' or 'additional features' but in the end, it is the games that make the console, and no console can rival the PS2 in games.

What on earth happened to all of those PS2 games? I'm going to look at the Metacritic Top Ten PS2 games (ignore my metacritic boycott for the sake of convenience)

1) Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 Series went completely downhill after the 6th Gen

2) GTA 3 Still around in the form of GTA4, arguably not as good

3) Resident Evil 4 Sequel coming early next year

4) MGS2: Sons of Liberty MGS4 out, awesome

5) GTA: San Andreas Another GTA

6) GTA: Vice City Holy hell, ANOTHER GTA

7) GT3: A-Spec Sequel late next year

8) Madden NFL 2003 Series became worse

9) Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4 Another Tony Hawk

10) Devil May Cry Series went downhill

So, we have 7 franchises there.

3 went downhill

2 have great sequels

2 have sequels to come next year.

Interesting. So a maximum of 4/7 of those can actually work this gen...

 

 

 

 

What point are you trying to prove? I basically stated 3rd party games were under lockdown by Sony so all of that is redundant. The Xbox 360's run is pretty much an emulation of the PS2's run. The only thing that was done differently was that the 360 has superior online but the hardware was rushed. I could care less about Blu Ray. I have 5 stand alone DVD players in my house. Made by Sony means nothing to me. I'm a Samsung guy and they make superior things to Sony as it stands. Remember this fact: The PS2 didn't sell well because it was made by Sony. It sold well because it was marketed better than all of the other systems and gathered all of the important titles early. If people bought products just because it was Sony, the PS3 would be ontop right now, no questions asked according to your logic, but no, it didn't and the Wii blew it and the 360 away.



DOATS1 on 13 November 2008
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Reasons the PS2 sold well:

- Came out a year ahead of the Xbox

- Was $100 cheaper straight out of the gate

- Was cheaper to develop for

- Had the best 3rd party games under heavy lockdown.

- Had timed exclusivity under heavy lockdown.

 

Hmmm....Sounds very similar to the Xbox 360 wouldn't you think? Except the Xbox 360 came out $200 cheaper than the PS3. The gameplan sounds strikingly similar.

 

i would agree with you if the 360 was currently the best selling system right now...but it isn't...so no, no simlarities. you see, the game plan is similar, but they results are so different it hurts.

the PS2 sold so well because it was at the right price at launch and it was the follow up from the highly successful PS1.

it already had a fanbase who could actually afford the console, unlike the ps3.

all this talk of lockdown on exclusives really comes with the package of selling like hot cakes. sony didn't have to invest so much money in making sure the games stayed exclusive like microsoft did. devs knew where the bread and butter was. 

 main point though: it already had a fanbase. it's partly the reason why people are still buying the very expensive ps3 when they could get the cheaper 360. the playstation brand is still stronger. if it were the other way round, microsoft wouldn't be so lucky.




S.T.A.G.E. on 13 November 2008
Aprisaiden said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
shanbcn said:

After looking at best selling PS2 games, i reliased how happy companies must have been last gen because they didn't need 90+ on metacritic to sell games. Here is some facts.

Need for Speed 1 and 2 sold 6.5 million each, can you imagine NFS selling this amount even on both 360 and PS3?

Crash Bandicoot sold 5 million despite horrible reviews, and now many people didn't know when it released this gen.

Spiderman sold 4.33 million.

Simpsons: Hit and Run sold 4.24 million.

And the list is huge with 200+ million sellers.

 

I think metacritic and gamerankings have become to important this gen and with rising cost many dev just don't want to take risks with new IPs.

 

Reasons the PS2 sold well:

- Came out a year ahead of the Xbox

- Was $100 cheaper straight out of the gate

- Was cheaper to develop for

- Had the best 3rd party games under heavy lockdown.

- Had timed exclusivity under heavy lockdown.

 

Hmmm....Sounds very similar to the Xbox 360 wouldn't you think? Except the Xbox 360 came out $200 cheaper than the PS3. The gameplan sounds strikingly similar.

 

While PS2 did have those advantages don't forget.

 - came out 1 year AFTER the Dreamcast
 - Was $299 untill Xbox/Gamecube came out and it was due for a price drop... and the Gamecube launched at $199.
 - It was harder to develop for -- and only cheaper since engines had already been built.
 - Best 3rd party games were on lock down cause PS2 had already approx the lifetime sales of the Xbox / gamecube.

 While i agree Microsoft basically copied SONY's plan for last gen, their is still some major differences ...


 Anyway i think we can all agree Nintendo and Microsoft basically had the time of their lives after the $599 annoucment ... anyone who looked at the industry for more than 2 seconds saw how the SONY hype train crashed and burnt that day -- afterall their is only so many people prepared to pay $599 for a console. (imagine the Wii vs. $299 PS3 without blu-ray / slightly weaker spec's but launched holiday 2005... i have the feeling the PS3 might of won due to brand name)

 Overall who else can't wait untill post christmas sales so we can see how each console is doing. Afterall this gen started is 2006 - Ongoing(/2009)... and it can't be long untill the next gen are set into motion by the annoucment of PSP2 / DS2... (2010?)

-The Dreamcast came out a year earlier than next gen schedule was because Sega prematurely tried to make up for the shitty job they did with the Saturn, with that extremely high price point for the mid 90's. The PS1 was still cheaper than the Saturn and Sega refused to use third parties and diversify with RPG's.The PS2 destroyed the Dreamcast on so many fronts.

-The playstation had already achieved dominance, especially after taking the FF series away from nintendo and giving people more choice on the PS1. The Gamecube didn't have enough 3rd party support that wasn't multiplat. The 1st party titles were rather redundant and the Playstation 2 capitalized off of that. Sony was able to capitalize off of being a monitarily stronger company than Nintendo and Sega.

The Xbox 360 resembles the PS2, but has it's own positives and negatives. The PS3's campaign strikingly resembles the original Xbox.

 

 You're right, I cannot wait for 2009 for sure. You just don't know, lol. Now that I got the PS3 i'm going to buy enough games so I don't have to buy games for like 4 to 5 months, lol.

 



S.T.A.G.E. on 13 November 2008
DOATS1 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Reasons the PS2 sold well:

- Came out a year ahead of the Xbox

- Was $100 cheaper straight out of the gate

- Was cheaper to develop for

- Had the best 3rd party games under heavy lockdown.

- Had timed exclusivity under heavy lockdown.

 

Hmmm....Sounds very similar to the Xbox 360 wouldn't you think? Except the Xbox 360 came out $200 cheaper than the PS3. The gameplan sounds strikingly similar.

 

i would agree with you if the 360 was currently the best selling system right now...but it isn't...so no, no simlarities. you see, the game plan is similar, but they results are so different it hurts.

Dude...the sales have nothing to do with it. I was talking about the gameplan similarities. If you want to see how it worked out for the 360, the Xbox 360 has had a different type of luck as opposed to last gen as far as sales so I would think you should notice that. They should surpass the lifetime sales of the Xbox by the end of the year. I hope you know that the 360's run is obviously to hold the PS3 back and set it up for the 720 launch.The 720 should have a much larger fanbase than the 360. The Playstation 2's future was paved by the PS1 and taking key Japanese RPG's and 3rd party games. Especially since they gathered FF from Nintendo and they got number but Crystal Chronicles.

the PS2 sold so well because it was at the right price at launch and it was the follow up from the highly successful PS1.

This is a given, but the PS2 destroyed the Dreamcast and Nintendo fell back. Americans were the only people optimistic about he Xbox. It was sold as a highly powerful system with the best graphics. Sound alot like the PS3? Definitely.

 

it already had a fanbase who could actually afford the console, unlike the ps3.

This is a given

 

all this talk of lockdown on exclusives really comes with the package of selling like hot cakes. sony didn't have to invest so much money in making sure the games stayed exclusive like microsoft did. devs knew where the bread and butter was. 

 

No...Sony paid alot of 3rd parties to keep their games exclusive. SE wanted to use DVD's and Sony paid Rockstar for 4 year exclusivity to keep the GTA series away from the Xbox, because Microsoft was after that series. The only reason devs knew where the bread and butter was, was because Microsoft was wet behind the ears. Proof of my way in thinking is how this gen turned out when the tables turned. The PS3 turned into the Xbox gameplan of this gen and the XBox 360 turned into the PS2 gameplan. The only thing the PS3 did better than the original Xbox was having better games.

 main point though: it already had a fanbase. it's partly the reason why people are still buying the very expensive ps3 when they could get the cheaper 360. the playstation brand is still stronger. if it were the other way round, microsoft wouldn't be so lucky.

Sonys fanbase has been split between the 360 and the PS3. Microsoft did it's job. All it has to do is maintain and continue to create an army of games until the gen is over when the PS4 and the 360 comes out. Oh yeah...I forgot. It's never over for the PS3. They will be out for a decade, because they know it's going to take a hell of a long time for them to sell over 100 million consoles just like the PS2 did in half the time.

 

 

 



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DOATS1 on 13 November 2008
S.T.A.G.E. said:
DOATS1 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Reasons the PS2 sold well:

- Came out a year ahead of the Xbox

- Was $100 cheaper straight out of the gate

- Was cheaper to develop for

- Had the best 3rd party games under heavy lockdown.

- Had timed exclusivity under heavy lockdown.

 

Hmmm....Sounds very similar to the Xbox 360 wouldn't you think? Except the Xbox 360 came out $200 cheaper than the PS3. The gameplan sounds strikingly similar.

 

i would agree with you if the 360 was currently the best selling system right now...but it isn't...so no, no simlarities. you see, the game plan is similar, but they results are so different it hurts.

Dude...the sales have nothing to do with it. I was talking about the gameplan similarities. If you want to see how it worked out for the 360, the Xbox 360 has had a different type of luck as opposed to last gen as far as sales so I would think you should notice that. They should surpass the lifetime sales of the Xbox by the end of the year. I hope you know that the 360's run is obviously to hold the PS3 back and set it up for the 720 launch.The 720 should have a much larger fanbase than the 360. The Playstation 2's future was paved by the PS1 and taking key Japanese RPG's and 3rd party games. Especially since they gathered FF from Nintendo and they got number but Crystal Chronicles.

the PS2 sold so well because it was at the right price at launch and it was the follow up from the highly successful PS1.

This is a given, but the PS2 destroyed the Dreamcast and Nintendo fell back. Americans were the only people optimistic about he Xbox. It was sold as a highly powerful system with the best graphics. Sound alot like the PS3? Definitely.

 

it already had a fanbase who could actually afford the console, unlike the ps3.

This is a given

 

all this talk of lockdown on exclusives really comes with the package of selling like hot cakes. sony didn't have to invest so much money in making sure the games stayed exclusive like microsoft did. devs knew where the bread and butter was. 

 

No...Sony paid alot of 3rd parties to keep their games exclusive. SE wanted to use DVD's and Sony paid Rockstar for 4 year exclusivity to keep the GTA series away from the Xbox, because Microsoft was after that series. The only reason devs knew where the bread and butter was, was because Microsoft was wet behind the ears. Proof of my way in thinking is how this gen turned out when the tables turned. The PS3 turned into the Xbox gameplan of this gen and the XBox 360 turned into the PS2 gameplan. The only thing the PS3 did better than the original Xbox was having better games.

 main point though: it already had a fanbase. it's partly the reason why people are still buying the very expensive ps3 when they could get the cheaper 360. the playstation brand is still stronger. if it were the other way round, microsoft wouldn't be so lucky.

Sonys fanbase has been split between the 360 and the PS3. Microsoft did it's job. All it has to do is maintain and continue to create an army of games until the gen is over when the PS4 and the 360 comes out. Oh yeah...I forgot. It's never over for the PS3. They will be out for a decade, because they know it's going to take a hell of a long time for them to sell over 100 million consoles just like the PS2 did in half the time.

 

 

 

i still disagree with your points. i would go into depth but i got to leave for work soon.

and where in my post did i state it's never over for the ps3? all i said is that the ps brand is STILL stronger than the xbox brand, and it is. not even you can deny that.

 




S.T.A.G.E. on 13 November 2008
DOATS1 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
DOATS1 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Reasons the PS2 sold well:

- Came out a year ahead of the Xbox

- Was $100 cheaper straight out of the gate

- Was cheaper to develop for

- Had the best 3rd party games under heavy lockdown.

- Had timed exclusivity under heavy lockdown.

 

Hmmm....Sounds very similar to the Xbox 360 wouldn't you think? Except the Xbox 360 came out $200 cheaper than the PS3. The gameplan sounds strikingly similar.

 

i would agree with you if the 360 was currently the best selling system right now...but it isn't...so no, no simlarities. you see, the game plan is similar, but they results are so different it hurts.

Dude...the sales have nothing to do with it. I was talking about the gameplan similarities. If you want to see how it worked out for the 360, the Xbox 360 has had a different type of luck as opposed to last gen as far as sales so I would think you should notice that. They should surpass the lifetime sales of the Xbox by the end of the year. I hope you know that the 360's run is obviously to hold the PS3 back and set it up for the 720 launch.The 720 should have a much larger fanbase than the 360. The Playstation 2's future was paved by the PS1 and taking key Japanese RPG's and 3rd party games. Especially since they gathered FF from Nintendo and they got number but Crystal Chronicles.

the PS2 sold so well because it was at the right price at launch and it was the follow up from the highly successful PS1.

This is a given, but the PS2 destroyed the Dreamcast and Nintendo fell back. Americans were the only people optimistic about he Xbox. It was sold as a highly powerful system with the best graphics. Sound alot like the PS3? Definitely.

 

it already had a fanbase who could actually afford the console, unlike the ps3.

This is a given

 

all this talk of lockdown on exclusives really comes with the package of selling like hot cakes. sony didn't have to invest so much money in making sure the games stayed exclusive like microsoft did. devs knew where the bread and butter was. 

 

No...Sony paid alot of 3rd parties to keep their games exclusive. SE wanted to use DVD's and Sony paid Rockstar for 4 year exclusivity to keep the GTA series away from the Xbox, because Microsoft was after that series. The only reason devs knew where the bread and butter was, was because Microsoft was wet behind the ears. Proof of my way in thinking is how this gen turned out when the tables turned. The PS3 turned into the Xbox gameplan of this gen and the XBox 360 turned into the PS2 gameplan. The only thing the PS3 did better than the original Xbox was having better games.

 main point though: it already had a fanbase. it's partly the reason why people are still buying the very expensive ps3 when they could get the cheaper 360. the playstation brand is still stronger. if it were the other way round, microsoft wouldn't be so lucky.

Sonys fanbase has been split between the 360 and the PS3. Microsoft did it's job. All it has to do is maintain and continue to create an army of games until the gen is over when the PS4 and the 360 comes out. Oh yeah...I forgot. It's never over for the PS3. They will be out for a decade, because they know it's going to take a hell of a long time for them to sell over 100 million consoles just like the PS2 did in half the time.

 

 

 

i still disagree with your points. i would go into depth but i got to leave for work soon.

and where in my post did i state it's never over for the ps3? all i said is that the ps brand is STILL stronger than the xbox brand, and it is. not even you can deny that.

 

 

Explain that strength to me when PS3 surpasses the 360. :)



nordlead on 13 November 2008
Pristine20 said:
darthdevidem01 said:
@leo-j

for me this gen is better

as I choose PS3 not a gamecube liek console as my first console ina gen

I got the PS2 in 06.....so last gen for me was crap!

 

Are you serious? The only excellent game I've played this gen is mgs4 in my opinion.

anyone who has only played one excellent game needs to go out and buy some of the other ones. Not only the games listed for PS3/X360, but there are plenty of excellent games for the Wii too.




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c0rd on 13 November 2008
Shadowblind said:

PS2 is one of the greatest consoles in history.

It also showed that Sony had one of the greatest dev teams ever that were head and shoulders over Microsoft and Ninty last gen, with steller releases like R&C, God of War, and Gran Turismo. PS2 definitely deserved the win last gen; it truly was "the games made the console". This gen is...wierd. It seems MS is trying to fill Sony's shoes this time with "games make the console". Unfortunately, it appears "console makes the console" this gen, in terms of sales anyway.

I don't agree with this reasoning.

Besides GT, I don't think Sony's dev teams were that significant for the success of the PS2. Sony built up the brand during the PS1 days, but after that it seems the third parties that carried them through. They had all the momentum, enough that once the GC / Xbox came there was already no hope (they didn't differentiate themselves or offer more value).

That brings me to your last comment, about this gen: The 360 is obviously selling due to its software (nobody wants to buy faulty hardware). No matter what people think, the Wii also sells due to its games - assuming Wii Sports, Wii Fit and Mario Kart Wii count as "games." As for the PS3, who knows... out of the three it's probably the most reliant on the hardware (BluRay, reliability v 360) and brand loyalty.



DOATS1 on 13 November 2008
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Explain that strength to me when PS3 surpasses the 360. :)

 

 the ps3 doesn't need to be in front of the 360 in sales to be a stronger brand. nintendo has always been stronger than sony too. even in the ps and ps2 days, that's why they had the strength to comeback with the wii. the simple fact that the ps3 is double the price of the 360 and can still compete with it says it all. plus, i said the PS brand, not the ps3. people are still buying ps2's and psp's.