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Forums - Sales Discussion - Japan First Day Sales (10/23)

Luthor on 25 October 2008

^You two have good arguments, so it's hard to tell what's third parties' problem. This is not due to the economy for sure, the japan market is not in trouble, the PSp is doing fine. The problem is third party strategy, they hope too much on their brand loyalty, even nintendo. They need to bring some hype and some good marketing. Otherwise, on home console, It will be failure again and again.

I love you sig zucas but It's not on topic ha ha.



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mrstickball on 25 October 2008
ClaudeLv250 said:

You're sounding like a broken record because you've been repeating this fanboy tripe every five days and it's starting to reek of desperation now.

Your first mistake was comparing the DS - a handheld starting its 4th year, that's overtaken the PS2 in numbers - to the Wii, which is still struggling to get decent 3rd party support, and has a 3rd of the install base to sell what little software its been getting. Anyone that frequents this site knows that such a comparison is completely asinine.

So we have to assume that a system that has a 7 million unit install base can't sell software? Why is it that the Wii has no issues in virtually every other country for 3rd party sales?

To top it off, you went through a complete fail manuever by using Tenchu (first day sales, no less) as an example. Tenchu hasn't been relevant in years. By using Tenchu, you basically set yourself up for disaster. Tenchu has left a trail of stinkers, including several on the PS2, one on the DS, and one on the 360. By scrutinizing the Wii you made your agenda pretty clear. You made no attempt to explain why Tenchu didn't sell on the PS2, didn't sell on the DS and didn't sell on the 360. You made a beeline for the Wii and pretended that Tenchu's history was irrelevant. And I can tell you right now, those games didn't perform that way because of a lack of numbers on the box.

That's fine then. What about the fact that 13% of total software sales are 3rd party? It's not like that's an invalid comparison, even if you take Tenchu out of the equasion.

And the PS2/Xbox/GC comparison was hilarious. Seriously, Gamecube and Xbox? They were almost completely ignored by 3rd parties. The PS2 had no problem because it had heavy 3rd party support right out of the gates. When the Wii gets swamped in Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry, and Dragon Quest games then we can start talking about 3rd party sales. But if your best material are Tenchu first day sales, you're grasping at straws, and making great headway at destroying what little credibility you had left. 

Did I make ANY specific software comparison between the PS2/XB/GC? No. Find a quote in this section, because I didn't. My comparison of the last-gen system was merely based on hardware trends: in 2003 hardware sales were down, but that didn't effect 3rd party sales. So why would that change now?

 

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

mrstickball on 25 October 2008
Zucas said:

What about dominant player in the market didn't you get. Was it the not so confusing comparison to the PS2 or are you delusional. DS equals PS2 right now. And that's why software sales. There isn't enough room in the market for DS to equal PS2 and Wii to equal PS2. It's really that simple buddy. I'm not even going to waste my time giving the specifics because apparently that doesn't help you.

Yet the fact is....Neither system have equaled the software sales of the Playstation 2. Maybe the userbase is fragmented, but the Playstation 2 sold over 200,000,000 units of hardware. Both the DS+Wii have sold just over half of that, at 120,000,000.

And your just plain silly if you think that Ninty isn't being affected by the sales being down in Japan.  Games that Ninty has released this year with little to no hype that normally would sell off brand haven't.  Numerous DS and Wii games from Ninty themselves have done above average than what they would have done a year and a half ago.  YOu can check the sales number yourself to confirm that one.  Ninty is being hurt by it just like everyone else.

We have 10 weeks to go and hardware sales have a total of 55% the volume of 2008. However, software sales are at 65% of 2007's value. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think software sales have been as effected as your thinking they are. Which is interesting, since the last 10 weeks of 2007 sold over 20,000,000 units of software - which equals whatever software gap there has been currently. So I fail to see how Nintendo has been 'hurt' when the market has sold within 10% of what it did last year.

 

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

scottie on 25 October 2008

Aww, poor tenchu. We'll have to see if the game has slightly better legs than tenchu 3 (which saw 124 k week 1 and 250 overall)

Tenchu 4 might be able to at least come close to its predecessor.

With luck... Lots of luck



FinalEvangelion on 25 October 2008

PS2, PSP, and DS are the best route for Japanese third parties to take. From my experiences of talking to Japanese people about consoles, Wii owners as a group know their preferences and don't really want to alter them. At least that's how it is now.



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Leni on 25 October 2008

Tenchu 4 seems such a cool game!! : (

and there are no legs in Japan at all..... is it coming to USA/Europe as well??



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ClaudeLv250 on 25 October 2008

So we have to assume that a system that has a 7 million unit install base can't sell software? Why is it that the Wii has no issues in virtually every other country for 3rd party sales

What's there to assume? We know it can sell software because it does. You're just cherry picking one or two titles, ignoring the situation and making asinine blanket statements. Tenchu didn't sell on the 360, DS or PS2. I therefore declare that these platforms can't sell 3rd party games. Why is it that these consoles have virtually no issues in every other contry for 3rd party sales? Clearly something is wrong with these platforms, since none of them could sell Tenchu.

Hey everybody I just pulled a stickball!

That's fine then. What about the fact that 13% of total software sales are 3rd party? It's not like that's an invalid comparison, even if you take Tenchu out of the equasion.

What about the fact that 13% of 3rd party software is worth playing? DS faced a similar situation with 3rd party support and trolls were saying the exact same thing. Let's ignore that a lot of DS 3rd party games weren't worth playing for over a year, and pretend that it's a problem with the hardware.

Did I make ANY specific software comparison between the PS2/XB/GC? No. Find a quote in this section, because I didn't. My comparison of the last-gen system was merely based on hardware trends: in 2003 hardware sales were down, but that didn't effect 3rd party sales. So why would that change now?

I never said you did make specific software comparisons, but it's a pretty silly move to try and compare the two generations based on hardware sales at the time when PS2 had a monopoly on 3rd party software. There was no problem with the software sales because all of the software was on PS2 and everyone had a PS2. The situation is hardly the same. What type of lies are you trying to weave? That generation wasn't that long ago, it's not like someone's going to stumble in here and forget that a lot of smash hits were released in 2003.



Tag - "No trolling on my watch!"

mrstickball on 25 October 2008
ClaudeLv250 said:

hat's there to assume? We know it can sell software because it does. You're just cherry picking one or two titles, ignoring the situation and making asinine blanket statements. Tenchu didn't sell on the 360, DS or PS2. I therefore declare that these platforms can't sell 3rd party games. Why is it that these consoles have virtually no issues in every other contry for 3rd party sales? Clearly something is wrong with these platforms, since none of them could sell Tenchu.

Hey everybody I just pulled a stickball!

What about the other 12 3rd party titles that make up 13% of the market? That's not cherry picking, when your using a pretty wide-scoped test for 3rd party sales.

What about the fact that 13% of 3rd party software is worth playing? DS faced a similar situation with 3rd party support and trolls were saying the exact same thing. Let's ignore that a lot of DS 3rd party games weren't worth playing for over a year, and pretend that it's a problem with the hardware.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even Wii shovelware that's 3rd party, in virtually EVERY other region, does far better....Why not Japan? Even crap on a great system does well, and the Wii/DS have proved (as market leaders) that shovelware can sell.

I never said you did make specific software comparisons, but it's a pretty silly move to try and compare the two generations based on hardware sales at the time when PS2 had a monopoly on 3rd party software. There was no problem with the software sales because all of the software was on PS2 and everyone had a PS2. The situation is hardly the same. What type of lies are you trying to weave? That generation wasn't that long ago, it's not like someone's going to stumble in here and forget that a lot of smash hits were released in 2003.

Then what kind of comparison can one draw then? It seems by your logic that Wii 3rd party sales being so bad can't be compared, because it may show the Wii to be a rather weak system in Japan, in terms of moving 3rd party games.

Maybe it is the fact that there is a dearth of core 3rd party titles. I agree they aren't there.

Maybe it's the fact that 7 million users don't buy 3rd party games (if that's the case, why are users everywhere else doing the exact opposite?)

At any rate, I'm trying to give sound reasoning based on previous trends using data. For everything your attacking me on, you've provided litterally no sales numbers. Not a single iota. Every single statement I've been making has been backed by actual sales numbers. If you want to play the game, why not use numbers? They don't lie.

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

ClaudeLv250 on 25 October 2008

double post



Tag - "No trolling on my watch!"

ClaudeLv250 on 25 October 2008

What about the other 12 3rd party titles that make up 13% of the market? That's not cherry picking, when your using a pretty wide-scoped test for 3rd party sales.


It's cherry picking considering that they're not wide scoped. I have yet to see a major seller come to the Wii and fail to sell. Dragon Quest outdid everyone in 2007. A Tales sidegame trashed the main game in sales. Tenchu has not sold in years. Now, if Samurai Warriors 3 does 10k first day we might have something to talk about, but obscure, crappy, or irrelevant games is hardly a "wide-scoped test" for 3rd party sales when the selection itself isn't even of the same nature.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even Wii shovelware that's 3rd party, in virtually EVERY other region, does far better....Why not Japan? Even crap on a great system does well, and the Wii/DS have proved (as market leaders) that shovelware can sell.


The only platform capable of selling any type of shovelware in Japan right now is the DS and even then the shovelware is selling far less than its western equivalents. Another illogical comparison.

Then what kind of comparison can one draw then? It seems by your logic that Wii 3rd party sales being so bad can't be compared, because it may show the Wii to be a rather weak system in Japan, in terms of moving 3rd party games.

Maybe it is the fact that there is a dearth of core 3rd party titles. I agree they aren't there.

Maybe it's the fact that 7 million users don't buy 3rd party games (if that's the case, why are users everywhere else doing the exact opposite?)


At any rate, I'm trying to give sound reasoning based on previous trends using data. For everything your attacking me on, you've provided litterally no sales numbers. Not a single iota. Every single statement I've been making has been backed by actual sales numbers. If you want to play the game, why not use numbers? They don't lie.


You have no reasoning and you haven't backed anything with sales numbers. You've tossed around a couple of percentages and then started connecting dots that weren't there. I simply called you out on your BS. I mean this is a damn sales site, when you make sweeping generalizations based off of first day sales you're basically telling everyone that you're eager to fail.

You want sales numbers? Tenchu Z on 360 sold 6k first week. First week. We've seen several 360 games pass 100k in Japan so its clearly not a software problem, and yet it only did 20k lifetime. From Software did not make a dime of profit from this game.

On the contrary, Tenchu 4 did 10k first day. It's basically poised to overtake the last Tenchu game's lifetime sales after being on shelves for only a few days. Clearly the Xbox 360 has a problem selling 3rd party software that's not an RPG.



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