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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Bayonetta TGS08 trailer ... huh ... WTF ?????

Kasz216 on 09 October 2008
ZenfoldorVGI said:
Kasz216 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
jasonnc80 said:
Saw this yesterday...

Looks a lot like DMC series, lots of style yet shallow combat. Trailer was "interesting" at least.

 

DMC 1 and 3 are both great, and the combat isn't shallow.

DMC hater in the building, methinks. What are you, Ninja Gaiden or GoW fan?

In other words, do you prefer unfair cheap offscreen deaths, or block puzzles?

DMC 1 invented this subgenre. It, and its creator, should be respected, if you care for the genre at all.

 

What do you classify this sub genre as?  Cause that just isn't true... hack N slash games existed before Devil May Cry.

I'd hate to be the one to try to name it, but maybe 3rd person, non-fixed camera, Action-based 3D beat-em-up. Howbout Styalized 3rd person action game.

Other games in the sub-genre include new Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2, Shinobi PS2, Heavenly Sword, the new 3d Castlevania games(except for castlevania 64, which is more akin to Zelda than DMC), and God of War.

Double Dragon, Final Fight, Contra, all different sub-genres.

Of course the hack and slash existed before, however what you are implying is that 2d and 3d castlevania games are in the same genre, when one is basically a platformer, and the other is a 3rd person, non-fixed camera, action-based 3D beat-em-up.

There is no doubt that the games I talked about are a member of a larger genre, but there was as subgenre of games created and inspired by the original Devil May Cry game. It didn't so much reinvent the hack n slash genre as it did create a subgenre in and of itself.

Not to be argumentative, but classifying this sub-genre is like the supreme court classifying porn on the internet. I can't define it, but I know it when I see it. Bayonetta is definitely a member of that sub-genre.

You also know it when you see it. DMC was the first game like this, with the upgradable super moves, the 3rd person iffy camera, the styalized action, and the quick darting killing techniques, the over the top hard as balls bosses, and multiple difficulty levels that accompany most games in this genre. I think we should just call it the DMC genre, unless there was a game that did it earlier, which there wasn't considering DMC was a very early release on the PS2, and at the time "true next gen gameplay." Thus, my earlier post.

No what i'm applying is that there were plenty of 3-D Hack N slash games before Devil May Cry.  Not sure if any were fixed cameras though.

It's not a real sub genre... your just naming certain aspects of the game that you like.  You could do that with anything and claim it's a sub genre.

Like a "Space Marine" sub genre of FPS or something like that.



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bbsin on 09 October 2008

Bayonetta looks better and sexier than any other video game heroine out now. You kids that call her ugly have bad taste, stick to your JRPG female men.



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vlad321 on 09 October 2008
bbsin said:
Bayonetta looks better and sexier than any other video game heroine out now. You kids that call her ugly have bad taste, stick to your JRPG female men.

 

Agreed. Interesting go with the demonic hair, rather original actually. Also I just love long hair on girls...



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Xen on 09 October 2008

This is done by Sega, no? after seeing this and Yakuza 3 I'm quite impressed by them.

I'm very much anticipating this, WANT!

Also, people say she's ugly? YOU HAVE NO TASTE! hah! she's absolutely beautiful!



ZenfoldorVGI on 09 October 2008
Kasz216 said:

No what i'm applying is that there were plenty of 3-D Hack N slash games before Devil May Cry.  Not sure if any were fixed cameras though.

It's not a real sub genre... your just naming certain aspects of the game that you like.  You could do that with anything and claim it's a sub genre.

Like a "Space Marine" sub genre of FPS or something like that.

 

Name em and I'll tell you if we're on the same page.

If you don't think Ninja Gaiden and DMC share a specific sub-genre, then we aren't.

I'd rather not continue to argue with you. I think DMC invented a subgenre that the other games I mentioned, borrowed from heavily. Hard to disagree with that, imo. Acting like I'm the first one to think that, is a mistake.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

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ZenfoldorVGI on 09 October 2008
bbsin said:
Bayonetta looks better and sexier than any other video game heroine out now. You kids that call her ugly have bad taste, stick to your JRPG female men.

 

Amen, brother. A f'n men. It's the AAA syndrome. Internet 2.0 kids have a very specific image of what is sexy and what isn't. It's funny that in an age when everyone has an opinion, very few people actually think for themselves.

Snatching sheephood from the jaws of shepherdom.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

Kasz216 on 10 October 2008
ZenfoldorVGI said:
Kasz216 said:

No what i'm applying is that there were plenty of 3-D Hack N slash games before Devil May Cry.  Not sure if any were fixed cameras though.

It's not a real sub genre... your just naming certain aspects of the game that you like.  You could do that with anything and claim it's a sub genre.

Like a "Space Marine" sub genre of FPS or something like that.

 

Name em and I'll tell you if we're on the same page.

If you don't think Ninja Gaiden and DMC share a specific sub-genre, then we aren't.

I'd rather not continue to argue with you. I think DMC invented a subgenre that the other games I mentioned, borrowed from heavily. Hard to disagree with that, imo. Acting like I'm the first one to think that, is a mistake.

You're not the first, but your still wrong. 

I believe the genre it claimed to create was "Stylish heavy action" or some such...

Which basically meant beat em up that focused as much about making the attacks look cool as it did the gameplay.

The new genre stuff is nothing but style points.

 

 



ZenfoldorVGI on 10 October 2008
Kasz216 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
Kasz216 said:

No what i'm applying is that there were plenty of 3-D Hack N slash games before Devil May Cry.  Not sure if any were fixed cameras though.

It's not a real sub genre... your just naming certain aspects of the game that you like.  You could do that with anything and claim it's a sub genre.

Like a "Space Marine" sub genre of FPS or something like that.

 

Name em and I'll tell you if we're on the same page.

If you don't think Ninja Gaiden and DMC share a specific sub-genre, then we aren't.

I'd rather not continue to argue with you. I think DMC invented a subgenre that the other games I mentioned, borrowed from heavily. Hard to disagree with that, imo. Acting like I'm the first one to think that, is a mistake.

You're not the first, but your still wrong. 

I believe the genre it claimed to create was "Stylish heavy action" or some such...

Which basically meant beat em up that focused as much about making the attacks look cool as it did the gameplay.

The new genre stuff is nothing but style.

It's like saying the new games on the PS3 and 360 are new genres because they look really realistic.

 

 

A. Who the hell are you to say my opinion is wrong. It's not a provable fact.

B. It has nothing to do with graphics.

C. You still haven't named any games in the same genre as DMC, that came before DMC. Careful with your choices. They will be scrutinized.

 



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

Ender on 10 October 2008

I'm not a prude, but that looked pretty lame to me. It makes me wonder why the devs felt they had to add all that sexuality. It's like they aren't confident the gameplay is good enough.



Kasz216 on 10 October 2008
ZenfoldorVGI said:
Kasz216 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
Kasz216 said:

No what i'm applying is that there were plenty of 3-D Hack N slash games before Devil May Cry.  Not sure if any were fixed cameras though.

It's not a real sub genre... your just naming certain aspects of the game that you like.  You could do that with anything and claim it's a sub genre.

Like a "Space Marine" sub genre of FPS or something like that.

 

Name em and I'll tell you if we're on the same page.

If you don't think Ninja Gaiden and DMC share a specific sub-genre, then we aren't.

I'd rather not continue to argue with you. I think DMC invented a subgenre that the other games I mentioned, borrowed from heavily. Hard to disagree with that, imo. Acting like I'm the first one to think that, is a mistake.

You're not the first, but your still wrong. 

I believe the genre it claimed to create was "Stylish heavy action" or some such...

Which basically meant beat em up that focused as much about making the attacks look cool as it did the gameplay.

The new genre stuff is nothing but style.

It's like saying the new games on the PS3 and 360 are new genres because they look really realistic.

 

 

A. Who the hell are you to say my opinion is wrong. It's not a provable fact.

B. It has nothing to do with graphics.

C. You still haven't named any games in the same genre as DMC, that came before DMC. Careful with your choices. They will be scrutinized.

 

What's to be scrutinized?  I need a 3-D game in which masses of something get beaten up.  Even Dynasty Warriors 2 fits the bill.  It even had over the top combos.  The only things that you listed in what made DMC a new genre that it didn't include were "Hard Bosses" and stylized action.

Also your opinion is eaisly proven wrong in that it isn't a recognized sub genre.  There is nowhere that has a sub genre listing for "DMC sub genre".  Not on IGN or any of those places.

Have people taken some stuff from it to use in there games?  Sure.

Does that make that a sub genre.  No.  That happens to lots of games that never get special sub genres attached to it.

Also it's ALL about graphics and style.  That's what Capcom first used when they pushed the whole "it's a new genre!" marketing ploy. (like the 4D ploy... except it's something you like.)

They called it a "Stylish Heavy Action" game or "Stylish Hard Action" or some such.

What was the difference?  The Stylish part.  As Action games existed, as did Hard Action games, and games with Heavy Action.