Jordahn said: "As S.T.A.G.E's post showed, Yamauchi had no idea that Sony had inserted those clauses into the contract. Did he handle the situation appropriately? Nope. He was a prick about it. Does it absolve Sony of any wrong doing? Nope. I said in my initial post. They were BOTH at fault. Maybe you'll see the both this time."
The only thing it objectively proved was that what was in the contract was in the contract. If it was missed, then it was Nintendo's fault. What's subjective is that how do you get that "Sony had inserted those clauses into the contract?" Whether the terms in the contract was right or wrong is a subject for another debate. And maybe both were at fault, I never denied that. I was just pointing out the sujectiveness that Nintendo wasn't at fault. You could have done the same as well.
The contract is in the contract? What? Dude...that makes no sense. The contract states the body of agreement. If it's not signed...theres obviously no agreement. What is there for you not to understand about this? Sony doesn't have say a word to you about their intentions and put their true intentions in fine print. Plain and simple. Nintendo caught onto this and didn't sign. End of story.
It makes perfect sense since. You just misunderstood it. And besides, I might have been mistaken that the contract wasn't signed but at the very least, wasn't hardware already in development during this time? What was SONY going to do with all the R&D that went into this project, and how did they felt that their partner backed out on them?
Kutaragi talked Sony into making the Playstation, thats what he did with the R&D. They all laughed at him except for one man. Kutaragi was on thin ice with Sony as it was. He's lucky that one guy at Sony believed in him (forgot his name) and allow him to state his case for a Sony videogame console.
REALLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYY???
IIRC, Nintendo did CONTRACTED (means signed) SONY in 1988 to start development. But whatever...
;)
EDIT: Hey. didn't you yourself just posted...
"After the collapse of the joint project, Sony considered halting their research, but ultimately the company decided to use what they had developed so far and make it into a complete, stand alone console."
...from the same source. And I didn't mean after the fiasco. I meant before, and you know it. The context here is that since SONY was working on something before Nintendo ended their joint venture, it wasn't cool to all of the sudden cancel out on them without informing them. Again, don't try to change the subject.
forevercloud3000 said: Geuss I was wrong about Tekken 6 staying exclusive. It still baffles me how this is even possible when Sony pays for all of Namco's arcade machines. How can they just take away an exclusivity deal again? I swear to GOD this damn game better be coming with something extra for the PS3.
This generation of gaming has pissed me off beyond belief. It makes no sense for a superior system, with more features, fair and actually better price tag, and actually does something to make games become better versions of themeselves should be being treated like this this gen. What happened to the good days when a developer would be aiming for making a perfect game and not how can I make the most money possible? This generation has been one disappointment after another. -DMC 4 going MP -FFXIII going MP -Now Tekken going MP all becuz MS shells out a few bills to these developers. Sony gives them the chance to make an extraordinary game with their bluray and cell technology, yet MS keeps holding them back by stealing them away. This is obviously MS's plan. They keep buying off Sony exclusives to hinder the PS3 from ever reaching full potential. THis must have been the reason MS closed down all those 1st party studios, so they can shell out more cash for Sony exclusives. Every gen Sony tries to step up the bar on how their system can improve gaming. MS's whole goal is just how can they screw up Sony's plan. Why? Because MS has feared the inevitable ascension of Sony. Years ago Sony set out to create the ultimate entertainment hub. The PS3 is basically that dream coming to fruition, this is why MS is pulling no punches whatsoever. They will do what ever they can in their power to keep Sony from succeeding this gen becuz they fear Sony's onslaught on the PC market. To copyrighting of features in their system that are just retarded, to having random companies suing them left and right to keep them in financial troubles, to sacrificing the quality of their own product to simply get to market first.
THese companies are the worst though. SE has been the biggest let down, then Namco. These are companies with the LARGEST fanbase on Playstation and they simply abandon them for a little bit of pocket money from MS. SE has made said they wanted to be even this gen but that was a joke. SE has given MS SO4(a PS favorite) exclusive, Infinite Undiscover exclusive(even though it was mediocre), and FFXIII( a game that was the most important to Sony's ascension) as MP. Only thing PS fans get from Square is FFvXIII exclusive and the notion that we should be grateful for that. Fuck THEM! Namco gave away Katamari to 360 EXCLUSIVE and it BOMBED!!!! MS already has an exclusive fighter known as DOA which doesn't hold a candle to Tekken, and MS STILL gets Tekken. Have these companies no shame? Yes, these companies are out to make a profit but at what cost? The fanbase that made them what they are? The company that helped them make it in the first place? The quality of the game? The PS3 and 360 are only 5 million apart in sales, that is not enough to justify the spin of the market in present. The only answer is the good ol MS bank.
Yes, I take this kind of stuff personally and very seriously. I am a Game developer in the making and the thought of what this gaming gen has come sickens me. When I finally get to putting my games and gaming ideas out there I will never sell out for money. For me it is not about that. I am all about making the best game possible, making a game that people can enjoy, while utilizing all the resources at hand. I want to make a piece of art, and that cannot be done by spreading the paint(thin) thin so it covers more canvas(userbase). I have always believed in the notion you create a quality product and the fans will come to you. Hense the reason I love the Sony PS3.
Uhg! I am out.....
Sony isn't as loyal of a company as you would like to think. Due to Sony's history I can understand by the history of quality games I can grant you this thought. Their care for what you want is truthfully an illusion and the same can be said for MS. Sony couldn't have given a damn about the gaming industry if it wasn't for Kutagari. At first they laughed at him. They were losing to the electronics war to their top competitors. Kutagari saved their asses imploring Sony to focus on videogames. Being that Sony was a still a powerful corporation even though they were falling behind in the electronics war, the first Playstation did very well using a CD format and and the PS2 did even better with DVD. The sales of both systems strengthened Sony. They can thank Kutagari for saving their asses when they laughed in his face.
You can be as pissed as you want, but Sony had it coming. They were acting like the big bad corporation that gets cocky by taking mass market share. You also like to point out that Sony was the only one who made a quality system. Microsoft started that trend by putting out and extremely powerful system for its gen. This is hypocrisy. Microsoft made it clear that their only goal this gen was to hold Sony back this gen. They told Nintendo congratulations and that this gen is theirs for sure. This is something that Sony is far too proud to do. I can't stand what the corporate status of gaming has done to them, but this gen Sony was far too cocky and Karma came to bite them in the ass. Sony isn't monopolizing any market, so they have no reason at all to be cocky. Microsoft has. I don't like both corporations on a moral level, but it doesn't mean I won't buy anything from them. Thats just stupid. It's all business. You know very well that Sony didn't fight for their 3rd party games. Sony tends to be so proud that they block out everything that made them big or whatever succeeded on their system.
It's not just because Microsoft has money, but it's also because of the fact that a larger portion of their installed base actually buys games compared to Sony. Have you ever thought that Namco thought twice after Soul Calibur IV sold better on the 360 than the PS3? Hmmm...all that loyalty when you should understand the good and the bad side of business. Theres very little emotion that you should put in business...especially today. I learned this great lesson in highschool. The childhood days of gaming are over. I'm sorry to say this...but it's over. It's about corporate take overs rather than the love of gaming. We have to take what few good games are left as consumers.
Don't be full of shit. Get a grip man
First of all nintendo started all this by fucking over sony. That is why sony went into the "console wars"
Second of all microsoft has no reason to be cocky because they have monopoly on a market. Thats bullshit. We need to work at getting more OS widely recognised. This with windows ? it's a bad thing.
Third. It's obvious you walk around in a ignorance if your own, but soul calibur was never a playstation brand game to begin with. Soul edge was.
And Fourth. The playstation has a higher attach rate per console than the 360.
Finally...
Word ain't enough.
Sony didn't go into console wars because Nintendo fucked them over. When they and Nintendo were working on the CD project Sony tried to make the larger sum of the profit on a system that was Nintendo's contractually (You would too if you are a business trying to make profit). Nintendo went their own way. Sony hadn't even thought about making a videogame system and they were losing to their competition. Kutagari saved their asses by making a proposition for a videogame system and they all laughed in his face! Kutagari had become a big fan of gaming because of his kids and realized that there is a market in this. Before Kutagari gave that proposition Sony looked down on the videogame market unless they were to make a sure profit off of formatting.
Does Microsoft look like they are being cocky right now? Please. You haven't seen cocky from Microsoft. If you see them cocky you will hate them until kingdom comes. They aren't cocky right now. They were humble enough to congratulate Nintendo on a good job this gen. They have a plan for this gen. It's funny how you can have a double standard for the monopolistic ways of Microsoft when Sony aspires to do the exact same thing.
I could give two shits about what you think is ignorance about me. I'm buying Soul Calibur IV on the PS3 and the same goes for the FF series. I pick and choose between the PS3 and the 360 based on strength. PS3 fanboys cannot be backed up because they are hypocrites.
The PS3 has a higher attach rate than the PS3 because the PS3 had more bundles!!!This is obvious and you trying to point this out to me is stupidity. Keep the attach rate, because what really counts is how involved the installed base is and Xbox 360 has the win there. This is why they outsold the PS3 with GTA IV and Soul Calibur IV. GET OVER IT!!! I'm not a Microsoft nor a Sony fan. I've given up the emotional ties to them a while ago. I suggest you realize that we are in dark times where the corporate interest is the only thing that matters and the people come second.
hmm... You really do come across as a microsoft fanboy you know. It's especially the almost always negative posts about sony and positive about microsoft that does it. For instance your statement "PS3 fanboys... " now why on earth would a Xbox fanboy or a nintendo fanboy be any different in regards to their console ?
I probably come off as a Sony fanboy. No worries there.
However...
I tried looking up the videoes that proove my point about nintendo and sony but i can't find them. So i won't bother going into detail but it basically went like this.
Nintendo makes a deal with sony about them supporting their (s)nes with a CD drive.
Sony starts production of said cd drive. (the deal is still not in the public eye)
Sony goes public with the announcement
Nintendo Backs out and chooses something differently.
Ken who did previously suggest they make their own video game system, goes to the top boss and tells him that to regain their honor they should make their own console.
The boss furious with what nintendo has done agrees
And so the Playstation was born.
It went more or less along the lines of that, it's a long time ago i saw it.
And know microsoft and i know how bad they can be. I am a PC gamer afterall. That wasn't my point. You just said that "they had the right to be cocky" a statement that i really don't agree with.
Regarding attach rate you can't prove that it's that high because of bundles. So saying that games sell better on the xbox is a unprooven statement. A claim, which you make out to be fact.
"The SNES-CD was to be announced at the June 1991 Consumer Electronics Show (CES). However, when Hiroshi Yamauchi read the original 1988 contract between Sony and Nintendo, he realized that the earlier agreement essentially handed Sony complete control over any and all titles written on the SNES CD-ROM format. Yamauchi decided that the contract was totally unacceptable and he secretly canceled all plans for the joint Nintendo-Sony SNES CD attachment. Instead of announcing a partnership between Sony and Nintendo, at 9 a.m. the day of the CES, Nintendo chairman Howard Lincoln stepped onto the stage and revealed that Nintendo was now allied with Philips, and Nintendo was planning on abandoning all the previous work Nintendo and Sony had accomplished. Lincoln and Minoru Arakawa had, unbeknown to Sony, flown to Philips headquarters in Europe and formed an alliance of a decidedly different nature—one that would give Nintendo total control over its licenses on Philips machines."-Wikipedia, Playstation history
Honor my ass. Sony wanted full control over all titles in the contract. Nintendo wouldn't have it.
Tell me...if you had a business and a product with a well known name already and you needed a good add on to push it to the next generation, wouldn't you want majority rights for your product besides for the patent rights which belongs to the partner that you're working with? I guess you would. I have no loyalty to Microsoft. They are just doing very well this gen and theres no harm in admitting it.
ah yeah :P thats how it went down. Like i said it was a while since i saw it. Didn't concider looking on wiki lol XD
Ofcourse it's very clever.. but it's still stabbing them not telling them they weren't gonna go through with their plans is it not ? atleast they knew what they were going into, and what was happening.
Nintendo is lucky they read the contract before Sony stole everything out from under them including the majority of profits.
Nintendo still stabbed them in the back.
Atleast they could have had the decency to tell them the deal was off.
Nintendo stabbed Sony in the back? It was Nintendo who hired Sony yet Sony been the greedy b*stards they are wanted full control over the licensing............ So a gaming LEGEND hires an electronic NOBODY and Sony want to hold all the cards?................. SCREW YOU SONY
Thats why the statement below my gamercard will ALWAYS remain there
bla bla bla.. Sony wasn't a electronic nobody ? what world do you come from ?.. the opposite world ? Your fanboyism is off the radar man. Obviously nintendo were also "greedy" because they didn't want to sign the contract. And they overprice their products. They charged people for using their weird thingys back in the days, etc etc. You have nothing !
Oh yeah.. and Sony are every bit as much legendary in the video game industry as Nintendo is. My opinion, yet many others share it.
I know they weren't first, but sometimes being first doesn't equal being best.
This makes absolutely no sense. If people don't sign a contract the deal is off. No one was screwed. Sony TRIED to pull a fast one Nintendo broke contract. This is the nature of business. Sony wasn't an electronic nobody during this deal nor will they ever be, but they were losing market shares to other companies in the electronics market and laughed at Kutaragi's idea of a videogame system. Kutaragi's son had the system. Kutaragi was the only person with Sony who Nintendo trusted at least 90%. Kutaragi kept Nintendo interested in Sony's help.
Oh yeah because people sign contracts right away. The funny thing is THEY MADE THE DEAL
but nintendo never signed the contract because it didn't have to be done at that time. They then stabbed them in the back
and dont say they didn't because that is an outright lie. Infact i'll say that You are the one who makes no sense. You keep walking around in what i write, choose whatever the hell you want, and collect these words in a way you see fit. Get your shitty fanboy goggles off and look at the world through your eyes, you might see that sony isn't the demon spawn you call it. You've obviously told yourself some "facts" (they are not) for long enough for you to believe them.
They didn't call off the contract which is the whole fucking point if you even bothered to read through it. They stabbed them in the back by not doing it and that is not ethical buisness in any way or form. Don't respond to this with anything but agreeing because obviously you have failed to read through every single post you've quoted. Until you do, i wont dignify another response.
@Ronster
.. i dunno what to say ? i already responded to everything you said. Oh yeah btw sony invented a number of things, among others the walkman and the discman.
sega is dried up.. playstation is way bigger than they ever were. And furthermore, the fact that the playstation beat the competition "without" these heavy hit first party games (as you claim) is just more proof of how strong the system was. You just wtf pwnd yourself.
Oh yeah.. btw.. outside of videogames nintendo are litterally noone in electronics buisness. Or as you would refere it too "electronic nobodys" so i don't see why it could be bad if sony had been that (which they were not) when nintendo are quote: legendary.
Oh yeah, Sony gave us the walkman like when? 1980's well WHOOPY DOO to them
And regarding them beating Nintendo and Sega, THATS WHAT MONEY AND ADVERTISING CAN DO, It can make even the crappiest of pruducts (Crash bandicoot, Toshinden ect) seem better than they actually are, Allow me to elaborate...... (Kid see's Crash bandicoot or toshinden advert on T.V. kid thinks its good, kids buys it regardless of how CRAP it actually is) Sega lost because they could not afford to advertise thier GENUINELY GREAT GAMES like Guardian heroes, Fighters megamix , Daytona USA, Sega rally and Panzer dragoon ect
So how exactly did i pawn myself?
Or are you now gonna tell me that Crash bandicoot is better than Mario and that Toshinden is better than Virtua fighter?
No but i am gonna tell you that Tekken is better than virtua fighter. And as for mario. I did like crash more than the 64 incarnation.'
You pwnd yourself by saying that it didn't have any firstpartys, yet it won. That means the system is strong. People aren't idiots. They don't buy crappy things, see how the xbox hardware has fallen because of the red rings of death.
And you keep believing what you write.. yeah sure........... lol.
Oh yeah and you just pwnd yourself again by admitting that sony were big on the hardware front before the whole nintendo issue thing which means you've just said that something you said wasn't true... :p
