@ selnor

You are naive to believe Microsoft and Sony will lie about their sold to retail figures, they would get into trouble if they did. Of course both companies will try to spin their take on the figures in the best light possible, but their sales figures are concrete and trustworthy.

Microsoft wasn't even able to continue lying about their failure rates to the public and eventually had to tell the truth to investors. 1.15 billion USD and counting for repairs already, divide this amount on a per unit basis, it's easy to determine exceptionally high failure rates.

goddog said: selnor said: ^To add to this whole terrible mess. VGchartz numbers are always brought in line with NPD. NPD is across the board accepted had spot on numbers. We cannot start to say NPD is wrong. Which is all I can see you saying MikeB. It is accepted in any magazine, 6'oclock news and gaming site that NPD is God for numbers. VGchartz is always extremely close and is always modified to boot. Manufacturers will do anything, say anything to keep the company from going under or look better to the shareholders. If you dont believe that you are very nieve.     there is precedent for the npd to lie, they have been sued over it  before regarding pc/mac software. i support good tracking, but the npd is not that, for them discrditing sites like this is far more valuable than losing a customer who knows they lied for a quarter, they can win the customer back, but its much harder for someone like vgc to regain its credit with others

 

 Your splitting hairs. As an industry we need a guage, a medium which is accepted. Whether we all agree or not NPD is accepted by the industry. As I mentioned even the 6'0clock news. If anyone on this site starts saying that both NPD and VGchartz are unreliable (which is the path your travelling down) then I can think your here for one reason, to flame. I hope a mod reads this because I believe anyone who is a member and starts talking of NPD and VGchartz being unreliable should get a perma ban.

Edit: Because VGchartz changes their figures according to NPD data.

MikeB said: @ Bitmap Frogs Since the PS3 launched in all major regions the gap has gone down by about 3 million units based on shipment data. Why not just enjoy it today by buying MGS4, Uncharted, Super Stardust HD, R&C: TOD, etc? And the untapped comments originate from me myself years before the PS3 launched. It's wasn't that hard for me to understand, looking at the hardware and the state of game engines at the time. I did not claim anything. Stating "I think" is not a claim, it's an expectation. Learn some English dude. I think an ambitious Dragon Quest game would be a great fit for Blu-Ray disc, Square Enix (Final Fantasy XIII) and Level 5 (The White Knight Story) gained much knowledge with regard to the PS3 technology and adapted their gaming engines, in addition Dragon Quest has a long history on Playstation consoles, I think a sequel will hit the console at some point.

 

Since when boxes rotting on warehouses because lack of consumer demand matter? You are just spinning it that way because any impression that the ps3 isn't taking back the market needs to be fought by tooth and nail. For all we know MS duped the retail channel into buying over 800k units of Too Human.. if shipped matters that much how come you are nowhere to be seen in Too Human threads claiming it's a success?

The truth is, as far as consumer demand is involved, the ps3 has not closed in the gap. At all. It burns you but that's how things are. VGChartz homepage states 21 million 360's, 15 million ps3's. That's the state of things.

The funky thing about untapped potential is that ALL consoles have it, because the untapped potential is not a consecuence of the hardware but of software. There is no magical pixie inside the ps3 waiting to unleash some trapped potential. Gears 2 looks better than Gears 1. Fable 2 looks better than anything released for the 360 in 2007. Ditto for Banjo Nuts'n Bolts. Same goes for the Wii - granted Wii devs have less motivation towards pushing the graphics envelope because it's got sort of a different audience but hey, here we are with The Conduit - it shames everything the console has seen so far. It's iteration of engines and software development that pushes the envelope.

However, only one console manufacturer makes it a marketing point (and as a consecuence, so do its forum lackeys) of untapped potential: it's the manufacturer with the smaller userbase, the most expensive console and it's the manufacturer getting the worst treatment from developers. Sony makes untapped potential a marketing point because they have to sell a 400$ console when the 199$ 360 arcade provides at the very least an equal gaming experience, including graphics. It is imperative that the consumers believe that they are buying "more than meets the eye" in order to justify the high price - and here you are, helping Sony's PR team.

And Mike, you were laughed out of GAF with your ridicolous claim of a DQ heading towards the ps3. You were laughed because you are old school enough to know and be aware of Enix and it's habits and you know Enix would never put a mainline DQ on the ps3. You also know that the chance of a side-game is also low. That's because Enix has never cared about technological feats but rather potential profits - the ps3 has the lowest installed base of current gen consoles and that situation is not gonna change, not in 2008, not in 2009. That's why DQ9 is on the DS. That's why the DQ remakes are on the DS. That's why the DQ spin-offs are on the DS (except one, which went to the... let me guess... ah yes, the home console with the largest userbase - the Wii).

DQ doesn't have a large history on playstation consoles, as we say in my country "you'll sooner catch a liar than a cripple". Out of 9 mainline titles, only two have been released for playstation consoles. While DQ hasn't been as spin-off heavy as Final Fantasy, most of the DQ spinoffs have been released on portable nintendo platforms.

At least you didn't attempt to defend your ludicrous claim of rockstar giving the ps3 a console-exclusive GTA. That's progress.

I repeat MikeB, you have been banned from neogaf for spreading bullcrap like the one I'm pointing on this post. Don't get yourself banned from here as well.

Bitmap Frogs said: MikeB said: @ Bitmap Frogs Since the PS3 launched in all major regions the gap has gone down by about 3 million units based on shipment data. Why not just enjoy it today by buying MGS4, Uncharted, Super Stardust HD, R&C: TOD, etc? And the untapped comments originate from me myself years before the PS3 launched. It's wasn't that hard for me to understand, looking at the hardware and the state of game engines at the time. I did not claim anything. Stating "I think" is not a claim, it's an expectation. Learn some English dude. I think an ambitious Dragon Quest game would be a great fit for Blu-Ray disc, Square Enix (Final Fantasy XIII) and Level 5 (The White Knight Story) gained much knowledge with regard to the PS3 technology and adapted their gaming engines, in addition Dragon Quest has a long history on Playstation consoles, I think a sequel will hit the console at some point.   Since when boxes rotting on warehouses because lack of consumer demand matter? You are just spinning it that way because any impression that the ps3 isn't taking back the market needs to be fought by tooth and nail. For all we know MS duped the retail channel into buying over 800k units of Too Human.. if shipped matters that much how come you are nowhere to be seen in Too Human threads claiming it's a success? The truth is, as far as consumer demand is involved, the ps3 has not closed in the gap. At all. It burns you but that's how things are. VGChartz homepage states 21 million 360's, 15 million ps3's. That's the state of things. The funky thing about untapped potential is that ALL consoles have it, because the untapped potential is not a consecuence of the hardware but of software. There is no magical pixie inside the ps3 waiting to unleash some trapped potential. Gears 2 looks better than Gears 1. Fable 2 looks better than anything released for the 360 in 2007. Ditto for Banjo Nuts'n Bolts. Same goes for the Wii - granted Wii devs have less motivation towards pushing the graphics envelope because it's got sort of a different audience but hey, here we are with The Conduit - it shames everything the console has seen so far. It's iteration of engines and software development that pushes the envelope. However, only one console manufacturer makes it a marketing point (and as a consecuence, so do its forum lackeys) of untapped potential: it's the manufacturer with the smaller userbase, the most expensive console and it's the manufacturer getting the worst treatment from developers. Sony makes untapped potential a marketing point because they have to sell a 400$ console when the 199$ 360 arcade provides at the very least an equal gaming experience, including graphics. It is imperative that the consumers believe that they are buying "more than meets the eye" in order to justify the high price - and here you are, helping Sony's PR team. And Mike, you were laughed out of GAF with your ridicolous claim of a DQ heading towards the ps3. You were laughed because you are old school enough to know and be aware of Enix and it's habits and you know Enix would never put a mainline DQ on the ps3. You also know that the chance of a side-game is also low. That's because Enix has never cared about technological feats but rather potential profits - the ps3 has the lowest installed base of current gen consoles and that situation is not gonna change, not in 2008, not in 2009. That's why DQ9 is on the DS. That's why the DQ remakes are on the DS. That's why the DQ spin-offs are on the DS (except one, which went to the... let me guess... ah yes, the home console with the largest userbase - the Wii). DQ doesn't have a large history on playstation consoles, as we say in my country "you'll sooner catch a liar than a cripple". Out of 9 mainline titles, only two have been released for playstation consoles. While DQ hasn't been as spin-off heavy as Final Fantasy, most of the DQ spinoffs have been released on portable nintendo platforms. At least you didn't attempt to defend your ludicrous claim of rockstar giving the ps3 a console-exclusive GTA. That's progress. I repeat MikeB, you have been banned from neogaf for spreading bullcrap like the one I'm pointing on this post. Don't get yourself banned from here as well.

 

@ Bitmap Frogs

We'll have to see if my expectations are correct or not, nothing for you to be upset about.

No, I shared some shipment data and analysis which proved to be correct. A mod didn't like it and after a personal attack I called him a 360 fanboy himself (before the 1 Billion+ USD RRoD repair announcement he hated my postings on this subject as well). He didn't like that, so? I don't tolerate moderator abuse, an eye for an eye, he's free to ban me, I don't care.

Literally he said he banned me because I was too anti-360 with my statements. (Disliking the big adaptor, disc scratching/RRoD issues, paying Microsoft for Live, noise level, etc, common things many people can relate to).

IMO you are a fanboy as well, you make things far too personal. These are just consoles dude.

^
So he banned you for supporting Sony basically? People these days...

Graphs are so much better for visualization. Thanks for posting this information.

I would be interested in seeing numbers comparing how large the last generation grew compared to how large this generation is expected to grow, ltd. The challenge for each platform is to garner enough sales during the first few years to grab the largest chunk of last gen migrators as possible.

For example, assume the total last ten consoles sold ends up being 120 m units, combined. Now let's assume that the anticipated total units this gen will be 150 m. If the current ten count is at 70 m, then that means we're almost to the halfway point toward saturation for this gen.

My conclusion is that any platform that wants to gain on the others needs to do so quickly. It's a race against time. u

ultimate_123 said: ^ So he banned you for supporting Sony basically? People these days...

 

 It was for DQ thing. Go to NeoGaf it's there to view with some searching.

selnor said: goddog said: selnor said: ^To add to this whole terrible mess. VGchartz numbers are always brought in line with NPD. NPD is across the board accepted had spot on numbers. We cannot start to say NPD is wrong. Which is all I can see you saying MikeB. It is accepted in any magazine, 6'oclock news and gaming site that NPD is God for numbers. VGchartz is always extremely close and is always modified to boot. Manufacturers will do anything, say anything to keep the company from going under or look better to the shareholders. If you dont believe that you are very nieve.     there is precedent for the npd to lie, they have been sued over it  before regarding pc/mac software. i support good tracking, but the npd is not that, for them discrditing sites like this is far more valuable than losing a customer who knows they lied for a quarter, they can win the customer back, but its much harder for someone like vgc to regain its credit with others    Your splitting hairs. As an industry we need a guage, a medium which is accepted. Whether we all agree or not NPD is accepted by the industry. As I mentioned even the 6'0clock news. If anyone on this site starts saying that both NPD and VGchartz are unreliable (which is the path your travelling down) then I can think your here for one reason, to flame. I hope a mod reads this because I believe anyone who is a member and starts talking of NPD and VGchartz being unreliable should get a perma ban. Edit: Because VGchartz changes their figures according to NPD data.

 

wait where was i flaming, i was supporting vgchartz over the npd. saying its not beyond the npd to throw numbers to discredit a competitor. i feel we dont need to adjust to the npd, id wait for all data avalible and then adjust if needed, but not after just the npd

@mikeB if I remember right did sony not change how they track shipments last year? the moved from counting units produced to units shipped to retail. would that not scew the reported ship numbers, and 2 quarters worth of data would use the old method? or did sony go back and restate its shipment numbers just useing the new way?