Telling the consumer to wait 6 months till the new cycle begins to buy a laptop is quite and argument.

I guess it could be considered an inconvenience, particularly if you're shopping around because your old laptop just went toast, but honestly, I don't think most people are so desperate to get a new laptop that they can't put it off for a couple months.

Anyway, I thought you were talking from the perspective of the "hardcore" computer audience -- so are you saying it's inconvenient for people so hardcore they buy a new laptop every four months and can't wait for the next revision cycle, and yet don't have the money to spare on the "Apple premium"?

Honestly, the fact that Apple's pricing is only competitive at the start of their hardware revision cycle is a correct argument against Apple. It does create inconvenience, even if it's not crippling to most normal people. Why can't you be happy with that, instead of making up bullshit to try to substantiate a (clearly false) belief that Apple's pricing is never competitive?

Final-Fan said: Telling the consumer to wait 6 months till the new cycle begins to buy a laptop is quite and argument. I guess it could be considered an inconvenience, particularly if you're shopping around because your old laptop just went toast, but honestly, I don't think most people are so desperate to get a new laptop that they can't put it off for a couple months. Anyway, I thought you were talking from the perspective of the "hardcore" computer audience -- so are you saying it's inconvenient for people so hardcore they buy a new laptop every four months and can't wait for the next revision cycle, and yet don't have the money to spare on the "Apple premium"? Honestly, the fact that Apple's pricing is only competitive at the start of their hardware revision cycle is a correct argument against Apple. It does create inconvenience, even if it's not crippling to most normal people. Why can't you be happy with that, instead of making up bullshit to try to substantiate a (clearly false) belief that Apple's pricing is never competitive?

 

Pretty much.

lol...WTF is this...Apple Supporters United INC.

@Plaupius
The only reason Windows crashed on my mac is because it was on a mac. It ran super shitty from the start. The process of installing windows was full of bugs and glitches. One can tell the machine is not meant to run the software. Wether thats microsofts or Apples faulr...frakly I don't care. Nevertheless I wasn't blaming mac osx for not having the codecs (thank you). I was just stating that mac osx needs that stuff too... Every mac fan tends to pretend like macs shit dont stink.

@Final-Fan
Everyone took this "Apple macbooks are competitive at the launch of the product cycle" statement as a fact. I don't think its true at all. I have never seen a mac with same features priced closely to a brand name laptop. Also, I wasn't speaking from the aspect of the hardcore at all...you just got that out of thin air to support your argument. Normal people like myself I am speaking for...who buy a laptop every 3 years. People like me go from deciding that they need a new laptop...to buying a new laptop within a week.


@Bitmap Frogs
There really is no need to compare a non-pro macbook to high end manufacturers like HP and Toshiba in price. Those basic macbooks are pretty gimped when it comes to features and should be compared to lower end manufacturers. My mac had a basic screen (nothing like my current Acers crystalbrite screen), no VGA output, very few usb ports, a shotty dvd drive that wouldn't eject disks sometimes after only 3 months...
It did have a built in camera...and a price tag of 1200 dollars(in 2007). If you want to compare Vaios, higher end HP models...then you can compare it to Macbook pro...and lets see how that works out for you.

In any case, until you paste me a link here comparing a decent mac laptop (which can be on the beginning, middle or end of its cycle...consumer like myself really doesn't care) and a similarly speced PC laptop that are within 200 dollars of each other, my opinion will not change. I am willing to wait 6 months for this reply...if necessary.

disolitude said: lol...WTF is this...Apple Supporters United INC. @Plaupius The only reason Windows crashed on my mac is because it was on a mac. It ran super shitty from the start. The process of installing windows was full of bugs and glitches. One can tell the machine is not meant to run the software. Wether thats microsofts or Apples faulr...frakly I don't care. Nevertheless I wasn't blaming mac osx for not having the codecs (thank you). I was just stating that mac osx needs that stuff too... Every mac fan tends to pretend like macs shit dont stink. @Final-Fan Everyone took this "Apple macbooks are competitive at the launch of the product cycle" statement as a fact. I don't think its true at all. I have never seen a mac with same features priced closely to a brand name laptop. Also, I wasn't speaking from the aspect of the hardcore at all...you just got that out of thin air to support your argument. Normal people like myself I am speaking for...who buy a laptop every 3 years. People like me go from deciding that they need a new laptop...to buying a new laptop within a week. @Bitmap Frogs There really is no need to compare a non-pro macbook to high end manufacturers like HP and Toshiba in price. Those basic macbooks are pretty gimped when it comes to features and should be compared to lower end manufacturers. My mac had a basic screen (nothing like my current Acers crystalbrite screen), no VGA output, very few usb ports, a shotty dvd drive that wouldn't eject disks sometimes after only 3 months... It did have a built in camera...and a price tag of 1200 dollars(in 2007). If you want to compare Vaios, higher end HP models...then you can compare it to Macbook pro...and lets see how that works out for you. In any case, until you paste me a link here comparing a decent mac laptop (which can be on the beginning, middle or end of its cycle...consumer like myself really doesn't care) and a similarly speced PC laptop that are within 200 dollars of each other, my opinion will not change. I am willing to wait 6 months for this reply...if necessary.

 

lololol

So, hp, toshiba don't sell lower specced laptops now? Are you afraid or what, already trying to rig the comparison...

We'll check the new macbooks specs and compare the price against similarly specced laptops from hp, toshiba, etc. Because you can be sure, as high end as those brands sound to you, they'll have laptops on the same range of specs as the macbook.

And then we'll compare the macbook pros against similarly specced laptops from hp, toshiba, etc. Because you can be sure, as high end as those brands sound to you, they'll have laptops on the same range of specs as the macbook pro.

By the way, what the hell are you talking about bootcamp? the web is chock full of positive experiences with bootcamp, because it's the same hardware. It runs transparently. Windows didn't crash because it was running on an apple, it crashed because it's windows. Really, at this point I have to wonder, the same way I wondered if you even read the thread, I have to wonder if you've ever used a mac. Bootcamp is buttery smooth.

And here's a link so you can start tasting defeat http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apple-mac-leopard-windows-vista,1985-2.html

Bitmap Frogs said: lololol So, hp, toshiba don't sell lower specced laptops now? Are you afraid or what, already trying to rig the comparison... We'll check the new macbooks specs and compare the price against similarly specced laptops from hp, toshiba, etc. Because you can be sure, as high end as those brands sound to you, they'll have laptops on the same range of specs as the macbook. And then we'll compare the macbook pros against similarly specced laptops from hp, toshiba, etc. Because you can be sure, as high end as those brands sound to you, they'll have laptops on the same range of specs as the macbook pro. By the way, what the hell are you talking about bootcamp? the web is chock full of positive experiences with bootcamp, because it's the same hardware. It runs transparently. Windows didn't crash because it was running on an apple, it crashed because it's windows. Really, at this point I have to wonder, the same way I wondered if you even read the thread, I have to wonder if you've ever used a mac. Bootcamp is buttery smooth. And here's a link so you can start tasting defeat http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apple-mac-leopard-windows-vista,1985-2.html

So Tom says PC costs as much as mac....sure...I do not wish to argue anymore...not because I think you are right as I know you are not. But because I have to go play Silent Hill...

I'll finish with this...the base macbook that costs 1149.99+tax to buy has 1 gig of ram, NO DVD WRITER!!-only a cd rw-dvdrom, a 13.3 inch basic screen, Intel shared video memory, subpar battery life, pathetic 120 gig hard drive and no VGA output. On top of that it isnt' built very well at all and it heats up like crazy.

Now you can throw many crazy theories out there how its the wrong time of season to buy or whatever...but anyone that knows anything about laptops will agree that for 1149 dollars, one can find a PC laptop that will crush that macbook. Hell I'm willing to bet it will crush the base macbook pro in specs.

Maybe PC laptop won't look as cool as the macbook as its the whole...lifestyle /cool look thing...and you cant go to the "genius bar" in the Apple store every time something goes wrong. But you will save some money, have access to all the best software and videogames that are optimized for your system, wont have to hold down keys at boot up depending wether you want to boot up OSX or Windows and will have a much easier time upgrading specs when its time.

But I guess those I'm a mac/Im a PC commercials have to be paid for from somewhere...so macbook needs to be more expensive for now...in 6 months tho you never know.

 

disolitude said: Here is a price/spec comparison. Mac book (regular one, not a pro) - $1149 http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10099350&catid=22156 Specs - CPU - Intel Core 2 Duo 2.1GHz Ram - 1Gig Hard drive - 120 GB Drive - combo drive (WTF is that) Screen - 13.3 inches Similarly spec'd PC from same store - 699 http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10107931&catid=20354 Specs - CPU Intel Core 2 Duo 2.0GHz Ram - 4 GB !!! Hard Drive - 200 GB Drvie - 8X DVD+/-RW MultiFormat DL w/ LabelFlash Screen - 14.1 inches Now I know its gateway, who are like Dell and its not HP, Toshiba...etc. But the specs are much better for the Gateway at 40% less cost. Also, this is a regual mac, not a macbook pro. This means that its the plastic white shell (not the metal one) that will heat up until it burns your testicles off... At these prices, is anyone surprised that they get so much revenue? I've used a Mac and I didn't like the OS...but there really is nothing wrong with it. Its a functional system for people that want to use it for sure. However just like a PC, it does crash...your data gets lost...there are things you can't do that you could on a PC...its missing drivers when you need them most...etc... What I'm trying to say is that people need to examine their needs from a computer machine. Some may need a mac for some video editing software some may need a PC for some database tool...but for day to day computing (gaming, word poressor, internet...) there is no denying that PC's have more features and are better value.

 

sigh but as many have said ture value for macs is at ebginging of life when they are valued best, end of life products like the mac book youve listed.. (speculation has it being replaced any week now) do tend to cost more because apple does not drop prices, until after end of life. im sure thats been brought up ,many times in this artical. as has your paying for percieved better cs, and quality, and for he time being not needing anti virus. 

mike_intellivision said: Until industry starts buying Macbooks, 20 percent will be a high water mark. I am not going to say that Macs are not good -- I once thought that until I used one. But so much of the corporate and government structure of the US is run on PC-based software, that it will be a long time before that changes. (And yes, I know that the Mac can run XP and such -- but Big IT is a conservative beast). Mike from Morgantown PS -- True story. I once worked for a newspaper that went to a Mac-based system to put out the paper. It did not get WYSIWYG software (What-you-see-is-what-you-get -- standard today in Windows and Macs but pretty much limited to Macs 15 years ago). The vendor oversold the software, it was buggy, and one night the paper almost did not get published. Note that I am talking about a 100,000 circulation regional daily newspaper -- not a small local paper.

 

so quark was bugging it out, it still does that to this dday, or maybe it was adobe... damn what was the name of the publishing app before indesign.... pagemaker thats it i think... honestly all they had to do was look i know printhouses that are still back 15 years ago using presteve jobs return equipment, and they seem tohave no problems... its funny, cause you learn all this stuff on high end new gear, and you go to work in places, and they only upgrade when absolutly forced to

mike_intellivision said: Until industry starts buying Macbooks, 20 percent will be a high water mark. I am not going to say that Macs are not good -- I once thought that until I used one. But so much of the corporate and government structure of the US is run on PC-based software, that it will be a long time before that changes. (And yes, I know that the Mac can run XP and such -- but Big IT is a conservative beast). Mike from Morgantown PS -- True story. I once worked for a newspaper that went to a Mac-based system to put out the paper. It did not get WYSIWYG software (What-you-see-is-what-you-get -- standard today in Windows and Macs but pretty much limited to Macs 15 years ago). The vendor oversold the software, it was buggy, and one night the paper almost did not get published. Note that I am talking about a 100,000 circulation regional daily newspaper -- not a small local paper.

 

so quark was bugging it out, it still does that to this dday, or maybe it was adobe... damn what was the name of the publishing app before indesign.... pagemaker thats it i think... honestly all they had to do was look i know printhouses that are still back 15 years ago using presteve jobs return equipment, and they seem tohave no problems... its funny, cause you learn all this stuff on high end new gear, and you go to work in places, and they only upgrade when absolutly forced to

disolitude said: @Plaupius A specific example of me missing drivers on a mac was when I was going to europe with it on a plane and my windows crashed (it was already wonky before I went on the trip) and I tried watching the movies I brought with me to entertain me during the 8 hour flight. None of them would play on a mac OSX... I had VLC and Divx installed on the windows xp partition...but since I rarely used mac OSX, all I had was quicktime. Stories like this happen to windows users all the time...but for some reason people think that macs are immune to this problem.

 

seems more like you didnt bother to install free drivers, and honestly pirated stuff or porn is all ive ever seen those formates used for so why would apple directly support (outside of porn interests) those formats 

 

thatis not a problem its a user being to smug to keep his/her computer up to date.... s

 

side note on your flight you didnt happen to use a headphones trickle charger, ive been trying to find someone who has to see how good they are at keeping your laptop battery charged or at least give you extra time... it seems like a really cool device feeding off of the internal power given to the headphones through the plains audio system to charge them

disolitude said: Bitmap Frogs said: disolitude said: Bitmap Frogs said: Did you even read the thread? Lol...usually comments like this are reserved for threads that are a bit more complex than this. To sum up in short, the initial post was about people buying Macs and its rising marketshare and revenue... The discussion lead to why this is happening and why macs/pcs are superior comapred to one another. My post is well within that argument... So to sum up my reply for you, you look quite silly asking this question.     This is about you repeating that tired old meme that mac's arent worth the money they cost, hardware wise. If you had read the thread you'd have found a post that tells you the easy way to buy mac's with equivalent pricing to pc's as far as the hardware that's inside. Which you didn't. Hence, have you even read the thread?   The post you made about the "time to buy apple products" is pretty funny. You expect consumers to wait to get products they would like to buy because the price is not competitive. Yes, wait for Apple god to say its time to buy...give me a break. One can jump through all the hoops apple would like...but on the end of the day even with that guide one can easily find macs to be more expensive (although not as much if you dont mind waiting) then equivalent pcs.  The thing is, not everyone is a computer expert nor do they want to use 2 OS on one computer to do what they would like to do. (get a mac...but bootcamp a game or whatever else doesn't work on Mac OS...lol). Macs may do what you want them to do...but they still lack the support that pcs have. Here is an example, I work in online advertising industy and when it comes to the biggest ad servers in the world (dart and atlas)...neither support mac OS. They user interface doesnt run on anything but IE. Infact most of the time we have a complicated flash ad, or a rich media ad...we just turn off the targetting to mac OS. The ad is optimized for windows and IE and this saves us the trouble of having to torubleshoot macs since we know that ad will have issues. I know that mac fans such as you are hoping mac becomes the dominant platform but until that happens you really can't pretend like it is...

ah so you work for a compnany that profitiers off of poor coding in the explorer series of browsers now i know who to hate when i go to a website that only works in explorer such a terrible idea for security ..... you have no Idea howmuch i hate you and your company...