By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales Discussion - Mac Laptops Earn 20% of US Market, 35% of revenue.

Dragonos said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
Ah, once you are done swallowing the whole price-difference thingalingy, I'd like you to explain why pc's are better for word processing (considering both office and open source office suites run on mac os x), internet (there's a crapload of browsers and other web-based utilities like ftp's available for mac os x) or gaming (considering you can just bootcamp into your gaming windows partition from any mac).

for the first two - i can't say anything against them, other than disolitude's comment about some aps not running well on the OSX. But i can speak for the latter, which is purely convenience. Simply put - i often do small tasks inbetween gaming sessions (chatting, internet, whatever), or literally during if i have to wait for something for some odd reason (mind you, this is the same reason why i'm a big fan of running games in its own window). In other words, i dont like having to switch to a different OS (in my case, my ubuntu partition) simply to do a specific task, then know that i will have to reboot into the other OS when im done. likewise, as someone else noted - the little differences in the user interfaces themselves simply become tedious (i.e. my annoyance at simply resizing / maximizing a window when using a Mac), making you want to stick to one OS, even if you need the other for whatever reason. But that's probably just me, that has little patience for small (and somewhat unneccessary) annoyances.

so yeah, no good reason - just convenience. in other words - the will to be lazy.

also - disolitude made a good point that i didnt realize until now concerning mac prices - yes, they are competitively priced shortly after their revisions but like you noted - the last revision was in february - this article relates to august sales (i think, i forgot). The thing that bugs me is that in essence, the extra profit that apple made off these laptops was....bad for the consumer in general, since at that point in time they could've gotten something far more worth their money in terms of computer specs, at least. I mean, i have no problem if they wanted a mac for the sake of using OSX (basically, they paid a premium to use said OS in this instance), but it just seems to me that unless apple revises their product more often, its just...feels like a ripoff to purchase so late into the "model revision". If that made any sense. But i guess thats why apple had the 300 dollar itouch deal along with the 200 dollar rebate that i think impulsivity noted - so atleast that makes me feel better about said situation.

/mini rant

 

now see the simple thing to do is when at home or office, just use multiple computers each whith its own os if you dont like rebooting, and want full speed. otherwise VMware for mac virtual computer for windows... and ive never tried it on unbuntu 

at 2 you are right on part of it, but if a consumer did any research there are several websites that track and adivse people on purchase dates, i will also say since the  switch to intel apple has slowed down refreshes a bit, it used to be every 6 months or there about but it has slowed down significantly it is something that needs to be adressed (i dont think all products need the ipods 1 year refresh cycle) also when will they update monitors its been 3 years now and only 1 price drop, id like to own one, but there is no justification for it fire wire ports are not worth 300 dollars.... maybe 150



come play minecraft @  mcg.hansrotech.com

minecraft name: hansrotec

XBL name: Goddog

Around the Network
disolitude said:
Bitmap Frogs said:

 

 

What's funny is how you interpret the post. I'm telling you and everybody that if you want to buy apple without overpaying, you can, as long as you are smart about it. You seem quite reluctant to drop the "bu-bu-but macs are exPENssIVE!" bulletpoint and I understand since it's quite a useful argument (afterall, who wants to be ripped off?) - but even PC sites like tom's hardware have done the comparison. Within those 30-45 days window the Mac Pro premium is under 100$. I wouldn't call 100$ on a 3k machine a relevant price difference.

By the way, since you aren't saying anything about word processing, I'm assuming you are dropping your silly claim that pc's are better for word processing. Phew - some common sense, at least.

So your company doesn't support mac os for ads. Cool. It neither supports alternative browsers to IE - firefox? opera? chrome? etc... see you accuse me of hoping the mac becomes the dominant platform, but it looks like you are just projecting your hope that nothing takes over windows and Internet  Explorer because then your company might have to build the adds for cross-browser compatibility.

In a nutshell, smart buyers get mac computers at comparable prices to similarly geared pc boxes. The software support is growing and for whatever it hasn't transitioned yet, you have bootcamp. Thanks for clearing that up, disolitude.

Anyways, you didn't read the thread. At least from now on, you might bother to read the threads before hitting the reply button to spam your biased agenda.

 

Its not my company...Online advertising in general.  It doens't matter...you made a post that no one really cared about and now are using it to say that people don't read threads. I still think waiting to buy a mac until firesale is on is the dumbest thing I've heard today... If everyone did that macs would had a 0.00002% marketshare or would already be out of business.

Only one biased here is you since you persistantly argue Macs do everything PCs do better...yet you admit that you need Windows for some applications.

 

 

 

wow if online advertising in general does tht ill have to call three former employers and tell them before they go bankrupt, and damn why do i have all these adds on non explorer browsers..... heh it is funny when i virus downloads its self to my downloads file and cant figure out what to do... i used to keep a collection of them, but it got boring whith not many new ones appearing 



come play minecraft @  mcg.hansrotech.com

minecraft name: hansrotec

XBL name: Goddog

disolitude said:
Impulsivity said:
disolitude said:
@Plaupius

A specific example of me missing drivers on a mac was when I was going to europe with it on a plane and my windows crashed (it was already wonky before I went on the trip) and I tried watching the movies I brought with me to entertain me during the 8 hour flight.

None of them would play on a mac OSX... I had VLC and Divx installed on the windows xp partition...but since I rarely used mac OSX, all I had was quicktime.

Stories like this happen to windows users all the time...but for some reason people think that macs are immune to this problem.

 

   You go to a Divx site, you download a codec for quick time that is free (it takes about 30 seconds) and quicktime forever more is able to use Divx files perfectly.  There are also a dozen Divx programs that are available outside quicktime for OSX most of them free.

 

   So your example is that you downloaded a program for XP and didn't download one for OSX and then were annoyed that your mac didn't magicly have the ability to watch illegal copies of movies out of the box?  Yes the mac is not 100% magical, you have to occasionally find software to accomplish the tasks you want to do.  Luckily on the mac those programs are far more often free and far more prevalant then on Windows (it is quite strange that there are more nice little 3rd party apps on the mac then windows for almost everything except maybe file sharing, but it is indeed the case, probably because like Linux users mac users tend to be more enthusiastic about supporting the platform and Cocoa is REALLY easy to write for).

 

    For those who said macs aren't in industry they're pushing 5% in industry in september numbers and its going up fast (almost doubled in the last year).  Vista on the other hand is barely to 8% now, so OSX is very competitive with Vista in the "enterprise" market.  I wouldn't be surprised if OSX eventually passed Vista in that market.  If Windows 8 isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread Microsoft is pretty screwed between OSX and Linux.

 

  For some people who think a laptop should cost 500 dollars and are fine with 1.83 or 2.0 ghz obsolete processors and low end components there really isn't much to convince you.  Macs are for people who actually care about what computer they are using and are more interested in quality of experience for the next few years then scraping the bottom of the commodity price barrel.  It is kind of the same reason some people buy nice cars and some people but Kias.  Yes, in fact, both will accomplish the basic tasks needed of a car.  They both have wheels and they both can get you to work (though the Kia can't do it nearly as fast or as well or with as many features) but sometimes in life its worth paying a little more to get something that isn't clumsy and lame.

 

   Speaking of lame what is with that ad point disolitude was making?  Is he trying to say that macs not being targeted by ads is a bad thing for macs?  

 

   Ironicly, I'm sure most of you have seen those I'm a PC ads, guess what they were made on?  That's right, a mac.  Microsoft has this new suite of video applications to compete with Final cut Pro and Adobe and yet even those working for Microsoft don't like using that shovelware they put out (in similar news compare imovie to windows movie maker or iwork to Microsoft Works, Apple first party software is VASTLY superior to the clones of Apple software MS puts out with Windows).

Haha, you are a piece of work.

The thing is...half the time you don't know what you're talking about.

A lot of flash ads are designed on macs...but when they send ads to my company they have to send PC fonts as I do final adjustments on the ads and I don't do mac. If they don't have PC fonts, they are our of business...

My company is the largest advertising company in the world btw...no one else is even close. And the ones that are our competitors all work in the same manner...nevertheless, that has no impact on end user using mac or pc...but you were wrong so I had to point it out.

Macs are not for people that care about computers at ALL! Most people that I know who use macs don't even want to hear about computers...then need Apples life support to install programs and they like the fact macs have no fiddling hardware wise. Secondly, other than the rediculoous post about wating for Mac firesale to buy macs...its been proven that same or better spec PCs cost less than macs. So I don't know what you're talking about with macs being for the "hardcore".

Thirdly, my point about mac not playing movies (screw off for calling them illegal...you don't know if they are nor the laws in Canada for backing up movies).  I wasn't saying I blame mac for it...I was jsut busting the myth that macs to everything out of the box...and PCs do nothing without extra drivers and fiddling around. Both are computer machines which require the user to put the time to get some applications to work. Except PC has much more software support than mac and is cheaper...

 

thats kind of funny since i build and maintain my own computers, flash my macs to overclock, or use modded fx cards, ive upgraded and changed the guts on quite a few PM, MP and little MM. also work on pcs, its quite a fun hobby, and i know many mac useres who do this, even ones who build form basic parts to mac their own mac, something i plan on doing this winter as a project and your selling bullshit on your web advertising, outside of explorer the web is designed to be platform agnostic, and your company would not be the largest if it did not test ads out on other browsers, and platforms customers would not stand for segments they sell to to not be covered, like you i have worked in that industry and only the people who did not know what they were doing, or were so low on the neccisary persons pole that we never even saw them worked like you do, also how have you not been replaced? most flash projects designers bundle in fonts to work on all platforms, maybe your copany just enjoys living 10 years in the past



come play minecraft @  mcg.hansrotech.com

minecraft name: hansrotec

XBL name: Goddog

@Final-Fan
Everyone took this "Apple macbooks are competitive at the launch of the product cycle" statement as a fact. I don't think its true at all. I have never seen a mac with same features priced closely to a brand name laptop.

So Tom says PC costs as much as mac....sure...I do not wish to argue anymore...not because I think you are right as I know you are not. But because I have to go play Silent Hill...

You are making the assertion that Macs ALWAYS cost much more than PCs. Therefore ANY counterexample proving that Macs are sometimes competitively priced proves you wrong.

The Tom's Hardware article provides such a counterexample and proved you wrong, and instead of admitting it, or at least trying to reframe your position, you basically stuck your fingers in your ears and said "na na na I'm not listening, I'm bored so I'm not going to argue anymore but I'm right and you proved nothing".

Bitmap Frogs owned you and you ran like a pussy. Why am I not surprised?
Also, I wasn't speaking from the aspect of the hardcore at all...you just got that out of thin air to support your argument.

As for the "hardcore" statement I have made, it was basically an analogy that I came up with based on the fact that you talk about Apple users like this:
"Macs are not for people that care about computers at ALL! Most people that I know who use macs don't even want to hear about computers...then need Apples life support to install programs and they like the fact macs have no fiddling hardware wise."

It sounds an awful lot like "WiisMacs are for casual users who aren't REAL gamerscomputer enthusiasts. If you want a REAL gamingcomputing experience, you should be using a PS3/360PC."

So yes, I just came up with that analogy. No, it's not a provable fact; analogies are comparisons of one situation and another, and opinions will vary on how well I did.

Normal people like myself I am speaking for...who buy a laptop every 3 years. People like me go from deciding that they need a new laptop...to buying a new laptop within a week.

Well, if you knew for a fact that there was going to be a huge discount sale 3 months down the road, would it kill you to wait 3 months more than 3 years? If so, and if your current laptop isn't completely fried or something, I would say that you're massively impatient and not representative of "normal" people who would care so much about the price difference that you claim is such a problem.

People who decide to buy a new PC and do so in a week do so because there is no incentive, having decided to get a new computer, to wait. That doesn't mean that waiting, if there is an incentive, would be any real hardship.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

disolitude said:
lol...WTF is this...Apple Supporters United INC.

@Plaupius
The only reason Windows crashed on my mac is because it was on a mac. It ran super shitty from the start. The process of installing windows was full of bugs and glitches. One can tell the machine is not meant to run the software. Wether thats microsofts or Apples faulr...frakly I don't care. Nevertheless I wasn't blaming mac osx for not having the codecs (thank you). I was just stating that mac osx needs that stuff too... Every mac fan tends to pretend like macs shit dont stink.

@Final-Fan
Everyone took this "Apple macbooks are competitive at the launch of the product cycle" statement as a fact. I don't think its true at all. I have never seen a mac with same features priced closely to a brand name laptop. Also, I wasn't speaking from the aspect of the hardcore at all...you just got that out of thin air to support your argument. Normal people like myself I am speaking for...who buy a laptop every 3 years. People like me go from deciding that they need a new laptop...to buying a new laptop within a week.


@Bitmap Frogs
There really is no need to compare a non-pro macbook to high end manufacturers like HP and Toshiba in price. Those basic macbooks are pretty gimped when it comes to features and should be compared to lower end manufacturers. My mac had a basic screen (nothing like my current Acers crystalbrite screen), no VGA output, very few usb ports, a shotty dvd drive that wouldn't eject disks sometimes after only 3 months...
It did have a built in camera...and a price tag of 1200 dollars(in 2007). If you want to compare Vaios, higher end HP models...then you can compare it to Macbook pro...and lets see how that works out for you.

In any case, until you paste me a link here comparing a decent mac laptop (which can be on the beginning, middle or end of its cycle...consumer like myself really doesn't care) and a similarly speced PC laptop that are within 200 dollars of each other, my opinion will not change. I am willing to wait 6 months for this reply...if necessary.

When was it that you installed XP on your Mac? I'm just asking because bootcamp was in beta for quite some time before becoming a part of the OS X install, maybe that had something to do with the bugs and glitches you experienced? Anyway, I'd like to think that I'm a fan of Apple, but I don't pretend that Apple's shit doesn't stink. I know there are some seriously irritating, rabid Apple fanboys roaming the web, but quite frankly everybody who I know who uses Macs is a level headed person. They have all come from using Windows, and they all like using their Macs a lot better, as do I. Apple maintains a tighter control of their platform than MS, and it has both pros and cons, but for me the overall better user experience is well worth the price premium. And, judging from the sales numbers, an increasing number of people are thinking the same.



Around the Network

glad too see someone else took Impulse to task on the crap he was spewing. trying to say an Apple was less then a similar Dell?!???

And there are plenty of colleges that advise against getting an Apple, because it wont work on their network.

And add the extra cost in there for Vista if you are going to talk up playing Warhammer and Spore. Putting Vista on a Mac kinda seems to sum it up,the case is that a mac alone still doesnt cut it by itself.

And since when did getting 20% become some major victory? Thats like the PS2 making headlines for its market share. Its still selling in 13%-16% range worldwide for home consoles.

Is last the new first???




goddog said:

 

 

thats kind of funny since i build and maintain my own computers, flash my macs to overclock, or use modded fx cards, ive upgraded and changed the guts on quite a few PM, MP and little MM. also work on pcs, its quite a fun hobby, and i know many mac useres who do this, even ones who build form basic parts to mac their own mac, something i plan on doing this winter as a project and your selling bullshit on your web advertising, outside of explorer the web is designed to be platform agnostic, and your company would not be the largest if it did not test ads out on other browsers, and platforms customers would not stand for segments they sell to to not be covered, like you i have worked in that industry and only the people who did not know what they were doing, or were so low on the neccisary persons pole that we never even saw them worked like you do, also how have you not been replaced? most flash projects designers bundle in fonts to work on all platforms, maybe your copany just enjoys living 10 years in the past

Actually dude, you pretending to know what i was talking about is the only bullshit around. You will see lots of ads you your Mac, however they will be simple flash ads or gifs. What you won't see too much is top layer ads, or vokens, or leaderboard expanding ads etc...go do some research on what those are and then come back and say something intelligent.

When I get an ad that is an expanding bigbox for example...I will set it live for all platforms and browsers. As soon as someone emails me from the sites and says "this doesn't work on a mac". the ad gets targeted to windows only platform. This happens about 30% of the time with complex flash ads. So you mac users will see a nice gif banner instead... Why would we bother wasting resources and testing ads for less than 10% of the audience? We use googles Dart doubleclick ad servers...let them test it on their time.

Also, while you are right that they send all fonts when they send creative, I've had instances where a creative company sends me flash files without PC fonts and I had to refuse them. We dont design the creative...so we do run in to companies that are livng 10 years in the past...and don't realize that mac fonts are useless in the ad serving world.

Only reason i mentioned this is to show that while you can design flash ads on a mac all you want...they must be PC ready.



Final-Fan said:


Bitmap Frogs owned you and you ran like a pussy. Why am I not surprised?

Listen ...bitmap and I have been going back and forth about this for the whole day pretty much...and I had enough.

You dropped in a couple of times and said your 2 cents when you felt like it which is great...good to have input from you. But you have no right accusing me I ran anywhere since you had nothing to do with my argument to begin with.

You guys are clearly the majority in this thread so it seems like youa re right but in the real world you'd all look like complete fools arguing that on average Macs are competitevly priced to PCs with same specs.



Plaupius said:
 

When was it that you installed XP on your Mac? I'm just asking because bootcamp was in beta for quite some time before becoming a part of the OS X install, maybe that had something to do with the bugs and glitches you experienced? Anyway, I'd like to think that I'm a fan of Apple, but I don't pretend that Apple's shit doesn't stink. I know there are some seriously irritating, rabid Apple fanboys roaming the web, but quite frankly everybody who I know who uses Macs is a level headed person. They have all come from using Windows, and they all like using their Macs a lot better, as do I. Apple maintains a tighter control of their platform than MS, and it has both pros and cons, but for me the overall better user experience is well worth the price premium. And, judging from the sales numbers, an increasing number of people are thinking the same.

 

 I got my mac in Jan 2007. It was pretty simliar to the base model they have now except it had 512 of ram...I cant remember if bootcamp was in beta or not...I bought it with the idea of installing windows but once I foudn out that the blackberry desktop manager i was using did not work with mac osx and I had to get windows on there fast.

Once windows crashed I kinda gave up and got a PC laptop. I had the mac stored away for a bit without using it...and eventually this year I sold it for pretty cheap since DVD reader had issues with ejecting disks.

Never in all of this did I become an anti apple person...I still own an ipod video despite Itunes being a horrid syncing program and I understand that technology isn't perfect so what happened to my laptop isn't Apples fault. But I definetly am in the PC camp if I am asked to choose.



disolitude said:
goddog said:

 

 

thats kind of funny since i build and maintain my own computers, flash my macs to overclock, or use modded fx cards, ive upgraded and changed the guts on quite a few PM, MP and little MM. also work on pcs, its quite a fun hobby, and i know many mac useres who do this, even ones who build form basic parts to mac their own mac, something i plan on doing this winter as a project and your selling bullshit on your web advertising, outside of explorer the web is designed to be platform agnostic, and your company would not be the largest if it did not test ads out on other browsers, and platforms customers would not stand for segments they sell to to not be covered, like you i have worked in that industry and only the people who did not know what they were doing, or were so low on the neccisary persons pole that we never even saw them worked like you do, also how have you not been replaced? most flash projects designers bundle in fonts to work on all platforms, maybe your copany just enjoys living 10 years in the past

Actually dude, you pretending to know what i was talking about is the only bullshit around. You will see lots of ads you your Mac, however they will be simple flash ads or gifs. What you won't see too much is top layer ads, or vokens, or leaderboard expanding ads etc...go do some research on what those are and then come back and say something intelligent.

When I get an ad that is an expanding bigbox for example...I will set it live for all platforms and browsers. As soon as someone emails me from the sites and says "this doesn't work on a mac". the ad gets targeted to windows only platform. This happens about 30% of the time with complex flash ads. So you mac users will see a nice gif banner instead... Why would we bother wasting resources and testing ads for less than 10% of the audience? We use googles Dart doubleclick ad servers...let them test it on their time.

Also, while you are right that they send all fonts when they send creative, I've had instances where a creative company sends me flash files without PC fonts and I had to refuse them. We dont design the creative...so we do run in to companies that are livng 10 years in the past...and don't realize that mac fonts are useless in the ad serving world.

Only reason i mentioned this is to show that while you can design flash ads on a mac all you want...they must be PC ready.

 

saddlt your wrong i see all of that the opening ad for this site is expanding bigbox on safari ass, i know what im talking about, side note flash is platform agnostic too if exported right, and not incompetently, you dont need to set pc fonts it will do it on its own. and good design firms would have tested long before it gets to you, honestly you must work with some hacks

 

also why sell it for cheap mac laptops go for close to full price up to 2 years out even with problems? are you bad at using ebay too, how do you keep your job...? honestly most of the stuff you talk about i learned in highschool, much less college working for my degree 



come play minecraft @  mcg.hansrotech.com

minecraft name: hansrotec

XBL name: Goddog