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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Why microsoft is such a great company...as supposed to Sony

ChronotriggerJM said:

Ok, I had all these awesome answers for you >_> but I can't really give them because you put too many points to respond to, and I can't have my window open for that long (my boss does like... regular computer sweeps... kinda creepy)

ANYWAYS. I'll simplify :x

Microsoft doesn't really invent anything, they just seem to off the most basic, standard unit, and they want you to pay for gold >_> and all the stuff that should have been there in the first place ;/

Sony's got big aspirations and dreams for they're console, they just put it all in one device, and it's too expensive. Definitely the most valuable if you appreciate all the features. But most people won't, so it was a stupid move on they're part. But that's progress :/

XNA is cool, I don't know much about it, but I think it's a good move, personally I prefer the castle crashers method (make it big on the internet, then get paid for it :P ) but if MS want's to stick up for the little guy, that's cool. I just hope they (microsoft) dont' get a penny for anything sold on it, otherwise it was another move that just benefits themselves ;/ Not quite selfless.

@#%^@#@#$ maybe more later >_> I'll sneak this in while I can @_@

So consoles was hard drive before the Xbox, right?

Last I checked, Microsoft did quite a lot for the development of online service for consoles that both Sony and Nintendo owe a lot to:

  • Downloadable/Streaming Movies (PSN did it later, Nintendo is just starting to, 3 years after MS)
  • Achievements (PSN just added trophies this year)
  • Downloadable games (did it first with the Xbox)
  • Online components for 100% of games
  • Downloadable content for games

...And could you give me a reason how Wii and PSN offer anywhere near the same service Microsoft does for free? Silver offers far more content than PSN or WiiConnect offers. I can download 500 game demos for free. How many can you download on WiiConnect for free? How many can you download on PSN for free?

Yes, gold is the only one that offers online play for games, and that sucks, but the fact is that the service is actually worth it - if PSN and WiiConnect magically started charging $3-5/mo for their services, Microsoft would be butchering them by the sheer value that the $3/mo gets you for Gold.

And why are you making comments about XNA when you don't know anything about it? How many 1-man development teams are currently making games for WiiWare? How many new games are coming to PSN/WiiWare that are being made for pennies on the dollar? How many are giving away their toolsets for free? Last I checked, neither Nintendo nor Sony offered anything to help developers as much as Microsoft is.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

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@Stick

No consoles didn't have hard drives. Pc's did >_> Blueprint A, meet Blueprint B.

Movies, been done online @_@;;; Microsoft made a gate that let you pay for them via console... good for them I guess?

Achievements... that's a tough issue at hand >_>;; Personally I think they're useless... I've played plenty of games that actually rewarded me for seeing they're game through entirely :P They were called cheats, and they rock. Sony's talking about making trophies worth more than a simple upgrade to ones E-Penis :) Should they do that, "achievement's" just got spanked :P I like that they put them there, it's encouragement to complete the game, but man are they pointless.

Sony's trying to push blu-disc as a new medium and they already offer full games :/ Again, something PC's been doing. Read my earlier comment.

Online components for 100% of they're games... which... you pay for... the 360 seems to mean jack @#$% for microsoft, Live on the other hand...

Down loadable content for games... (see above statement about PC's)



Microsoft pushes more on the Demo front, yeah it's cool :P But is that really smart on they're end? To me it seems like common sense that Sony should be trying to push... but just doesn't o.O; Maybe they don't want to be labeled "biting off of microsoft for supplying the obvious." I dunno.

Gold is not worth it. Fair and square. If the PSN is capable of playing catch up without charging. Then live has no excuse. People can keep throwing worth it out there all they want. But when all is said and done, my PS3 will have just as much online functionality as your 360, and I never paid a dime for it :/

I don't know much about XNA :P That's why I've said very little. I was simply curious as to whether or not Microsoft see's a profit from it. I mean PC's offer ton's and ton's of free flash games, and the people who made them probably did so out of passion and or want of a job. I think Castle Crashers is friggin awesome :P Started out on Newgrounds, made it super popular, then Bam, shows up on the marketplace. Friggin sweet. It was a small team that made it big. Classic success story. If MS offers this service so that smaller developers can get there name out there (similar to how PC's do it :x ) then good for them, but if they see profit from it other than the possibility of a future game released exclusively on they're console, then I call hacks ;/



From 0 to KICKASS in .stupid seconds.

Last I checked, PSN wasn't catching up by being free - They are using Home to subsidize revenues for PSN being free - by providing various monetization models. So no, I don't think Sony is catching up by being free.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Home is going to use they're in-(game?) advertisements to generate profit from what I'm getting. Sure you can buy all that other useless crap if you really feel the need to :P But lets just consider that downloadable content yah ;)

The free service by itself will generate profit for them. And it doesn't cost us anything. Win Win on both parties. They found a working solution.



All in all, it just seems to me like MS doesn't have any passion for this market. Sony's notorious for creating so many failed formats, most of which however, have been better than what was out there at the time :/ They seem like tinkerer's to me. Hell they created a new microchip, it could benefit them down the road, but who knows? And that's really the point, it wasn't a safe move, but it's one they took anyway. There still creating, still inventing. They still seem fresh :P Whereas with Microsoft charging me so much money for the dumbest crap, it's like, seriously guys? It's highway robbery sometimes and people shouldn't be ok with that.

I kid you not, my friend spent like $80 buying a black wireless 360 controller, and the rechargable pack for it when they came out. That's insanity >
And the cost of the HDD's and adapters and such is just so ridiculous that it's comical.

Then like you mentioned, silver does everything gold does ACCEPT play online, for that they charge you :/ XBOX HAS NETFLIX!!! If you pay for gold... sigh :(



From 0 to KICKASS in .stupid seconds.

Mrstickball did you jsut call the Wii a shovelware casualfest

That seems unnecessarily harsh

OT: I don't think comparing the merits of companies is going to amount to anything positive.



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So here is the take of a former Microsoft Employee...

Over the years I have read a lot of comments from people about Microsoft being evil, only out for money, cutthroat, etc...

I will not deny that they can be cutthroat, but so are other businesses.  They are also out for money, their investors demand as much.

But to say they are evil shows an obvious lack of understand or knowledge.  Having worked at Microsoft for over 5 years and knowing several individuals pretty high up in the Xbox organization and Windows organization, I can say beyond a doubt that they are not evil.  People who work at Microsoft are some of the most passionate and driven people you would ever meet.  They want to deliver the best software and hardware on the market and aim to fulfill the needs and desires of their customers.

When the RROD stuff started hitting, they felt the pain.  Many in Xbox were extremely frustrated and upset that all the great work they did on the dashboard, Xbox Live service, games, everything; would not be experienced by Millions of potential customers now because of the damage that RROD did to the brand image.

When people complain about the $50 per year charge for Live, sure they would like to offer it for free.  But they also understand that to make a great product you have to make money to support it.  When Xbox Live was first in development it was an extremely hard business decision to charge for it.  But at the end of the day, they knew that not charging for Live would kill it long term.  Being that they were Microsoft employees they had access to tons of market and development research that you can only dream of.  They were able to look into what happened to Internet Explorer.  See how the fact that IE was not contributing direct revenue eventually led to the organization being cut down to barebones and them not keeping up with competition.  Sure they would get a lot of funding for Xbox Live 1.0, but if it was free you would never have gotten things like the NXE, Live Parties, Netflix, Video Marketplace, integrate dashboard, etc...  All of the money that is funding those improvements has come directly from the Xbox Live Gold subscribers.

I think this is part of the problem with Sony and PSN.  If Sony had charged for PSN from launch like Microsoft is for Xbox Live, PS3 owners would likely be looking at significant more improvements.  That money could have gone to add trophies much earlier.  To provide voice communication across all games.  To help reach out to developers and publishers to get more demos and game videos.  To hire more staff to ship Home on time over a year ago.  Instead PSN improvements are suffering in part due to the losses on the PS3 as a whole.

With Microsoft, when the Xbox was losing money, they never cut funding to Xbox Live.  Why?  It was profitable and as a result keeping them funded and growing was vital to the future success of the platform.

In regards to Microsoft innovation, by some people's definition of innovation almost nothing these days would qualify as innovative.  The iPod is not innovative, after all its just a Walkman with a HDD.  Walkmans played music years before the iPod.  Thats almost as good as the comparison above that PCs have had HDDs for a long time and people were watching video and playing flash games on them well before the 360.

Innovation takes many forms.  Innovation can be a completely new technology like the creation of LEDs.  Innovation can also be a simple improvement to an existing product or idea that helps bring it to a larger audience.

The Creative Zen 20gb MP3 player came out over a year before the iPod.  Yet the iPod innovated in several key ways including design, size, and user interface.  Who cares if they copied the Zen in a lot of ways, they innovated in key ways that helped grow the market and bring it to the masses.

Look at Microsoft with the Xbox 360.  Sure Videos were for sale on the PC through iTunes, Amazon UnBox and others, but they created an easy and convient way to purchase them directly on your TV in both SD and HD with no connected PC.

Sure you could already talk while playing games on the PC.  But even on the PC not all games behave well when running a 3rd party voice communcation application in the background, it is an inconsistent experience.  On the Xbox 360 Microsoft designed technology that allows users to communicate across all games with up to 8 people (all 8 can be playing different games) with no performance hit to any of the games.  With consistent quality experience.

On the PC you can chat with a friend and arrange to play a game together.  On the Xbox 360 I can send an invite to a friend and once accepted it just loads the game and puts them right in with me.  They don't even have to go through the UI in the game to join me.

On the PC you can buy little games from small development shops.  But they have to setup a store, manage the transactions, manage distribution and DRM, everything themselves.  On the 360 you can no just make a community game and get it put up on Live quite easily.  You set the price and Microsoft handles all the billing, deployment, distribution, and everything.  They take roughly 20% off the top and then give you everything else.

There are a lot more scenarios like this I could draw up, but I am sure you get the point.  Innovation isn't always the big revolutionary things, its the little things that can make all the difference.

It was not the PS1's great hardware alone that allowed them to beat the Saturn and the N64.  Sony made some minor innovations in the business side of things including decreased certification processes as well as lower royalties and improved distribution channels.  This caused significant growth in the industry and made it cheaper for more developers and publishers to enter the market.

I am not convinced Microsoft has what it takes to win the console market long term, but I do like their business model as it sits right now.  They are no longer relying just on game and system sales to drive improvements in the platform and service like their competitors are.  The Video Marketplace is funding itself to get more content.  The Music Marketplace is doing the same.  The Live Services team is rolling in dough to provide tons of new enhancements to the new NXE over the next year.  The Hardware team is also now profiting and thus working on new revisions that improve quality, add features like HDMI and 256mb onboard flash, and shrink the system.  This all will work well to keeping their system and service improving.

Is Microsoft perfect?  Ohh no, definately not.  As a corporation they have way too much beuracracy present to be healthy at times.  Even in Xbox, it takes an extremely dedicated person to fight for and get some of the customer requested improvements into the system.  In Windows it takes a new VP like they just got to improve the organization and get something like Windows 7 in development after the disaster that was Vista.  But does that make them evil?  Far from it.  They are just another corporation of over 65,000 employees that really want to do right by their customers.



I'm not prepared to read all that. But you being an employee has little bearing on the works of the company as a whole :/

Of course there will be passionate people about they're job. I'm not saying the people are ruthlessly savage and are out to get our money. I'm saying the decisions that occur with the people running it are rarely for the benefit of others.

You say you have to pay for a great service, but that's total BS. The PC markets been doing it forever. Sure some of the features are awesome, but that doesn't warrant paying for the service, it warrant's buying that console.

Netflix. Seriously. On PC, if you have a netflix account, you can watch it for free by accessing they're site. Microsoft simply made it so you HAVE TO PAY FOR GOLD in order to use it. It could have been a silver inclusion for the masses, but that would only be beneficial for us, not them. Which is fine. It shows your genuine to your audience. But that would have been too kind for one of the wealthiest companies in the world -_-;

There is a reason that Microsoft has so much bad juju, they are not a model company. They represent the downside of corporations entirely too well. And it's not just because they're huge :/

 

All in all, I think Microsoft should have just stuck to software. It's what they do, and it's what they could have greatly contributed to.



From 0 to KICKASS in .stupid seconds.

jerseyboy609 said:
whatever said:
You really have no idea how M$ as a company, operates in general, do you.

 

You must not know how companies operate in general, do you? Let me school you on the way a multi-billion dollar company works. First, let me start out by saying that I am a junior in college, a business major with a concentration in finance. When a company has a lead on another company, then they will do whatever it takes to maintain the lead because in the long-run, new products will be released, brand can be a deciding factor in which a consumer makes a purchase. In the last generation, Sony was the console of choice. Now, Microsoft is trying to convince more consumers to buy there goods and services of the same market. By the end of the year, they will have passed there old product WW. Even though microsoft may not come in second place, but they will have taken a significant chunk out of Sony's marketshare. If similar trends continue in upcoming generations, then that could spell trouble for Sony. 20 years from now, microsoft could me the market hog of the gaming industry. They are constantly spending money for resources and content, which Sony is not focusing on. Bottom line, you have to spend money to make money...in the future.

Ummm, I know alot more about how companies operate than you do.  I'm talking about all of their business practices that were determined to be illegal and monopolistic. They basically just steal ideas and copy them (I'm not talking video games, I'm talking in general) without giving compensation to the companies that came up with the idea.  I've been at several companies that M$ was interested in purchasing, but they wouldn't even talk to M$ about their ideas because they knew the ideas would be stolen.  Some great company.

They are behaving well in the gaming industry right now because that have no choice if they want to be successful.  Believe me, we do NOT want M$ to become the dominant company in video games.

My advice to you, stay in school.

 



ChronotriggerJM said:

I'm not prepared to read all that. But you being an employee has little bearing on the works of the company as a whole :/

But someone who has never worked for the company has lots of bearing?

Of course there will be passionate people about they're job. I'm not saying the people are ruthlessly savage and are out to get our money. I'm saying the decisions that occur with the people running it are rarely for the benefit of others.

You say you have to pay for a great service, but that's total BS. The PC markets been doing it forever. Sure some of the features are awesome, but that doesn't warrant paying for the service, it warrant's buying that console.

He didn't say you have to pay for great service, he said when you pay for a service, the company actually has funds to make that service better down the line. Sure, there are great services for a PC that are awesome, but do these free service really ever get better overtime?

Netflix. Seriously. On PC, if you have a netflix account, you can watch it for free by accessing they're site. Microsoft simply made it so you HAVE TO PAY FOR GOLD in order to use it. It could have been a silver inclusion for the masses, but that would only be beneficial for us, not them. Which is fine. It shows your genuine to your audience. But that would have been too kind for one of the wealthiest companies in the world -_-;

I disagree. You said it yourself, on PC you had netflix and you could watch it on your crappy 15" monitor. Which is why the service sucked and was quite useless. If you don't want to pay for GOLD, you don't get the netflix360... Plain and simple. Kind of like if you want the traffic conditions reported on your GPS you have to pay. Do you bitch and complain that you gotta pay for that? No, you don't. If you don't pay you DON'T GET IT. Don't complain cause your too cheap to pay for a service.

There is a reason that Microsoft has so much bad juju, they are not a model company. They represent the downside of corporations entirely too well. And it's not just because they're huge :/

 

All in all, I think Microsoft should have just stuck to software. It's what they do, and it's what they could have greatly contributed to.

You should read it, it's a great read.

 




well that's it, you convince me am selling my ps3 and get the xbox



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