@Axumblade: Call that cherrypicking. If you colour the centence up to (including) "GT", you'll notice that i'm not talking about Dirt.
I wasn't sure was it Codemasters (not really the companys official take), but it was one of the british studios that are known for their racing games to pass the comment.

With that being said, lets get one thing clear.

Forza, as a series, is by no means "bad". No one is arguing against that it's a great franchise and worthy of living up to GT. But here's where YOU made a mistake.

"It's laughable seeing Sony fanboys argue that GT is the better series. If your comparing how "close" racing sims are to the real deal, Forza has always been the more realistic series in every way" - stickball

Do you really think that it's not arguable that GT is the better series? Tell me, do you know how a lancer Evo feels when the weight shifts at high speeds? Do you know that Nissan, Mercedes Benz, Mitsubishi, etc have all let PD and Kaz test their cars before they are even unveiled to the public? Or how about the fact that Kaz was the first person outside of Mitsubishi to test drive EVO X because they knew that no one else would spend that much time programming cars to be like the real thing? Did you also know that the best professional drivers and drifters in the world have given input to make handling as realistic as possible?

Honestly now. Why in the world do you think it takes so long to make a GT game opposed to a Forza game? the car models of Forza are built around an engine that calculates the physics and handling of all cars based on specs. GT has always done the details of every car based on each specific one and direct input from drivers/manufacturers. Just go to any popular autoshow event and ask some of the enthusiast what game is more like the "real thing", or find a television special about the franchise. The people that only base "realism" on crash effects are usually the ones that are ignorant and oblivious to what makes GT great in the first place.

With GT:5 not expected until 2010, would it be fair to compare the $29.99 Forza 2 platinum hits (with all DLC included) to the $39.99 Gran Turismo 5 prologue?
I say yes. Anything that costs $40 isn't a demo.

@bbsin: I do agree that complaining about missing crash effects, is missing what GT is all about, but since it calls itself "simulator", there should be the damage. Although, you can't blame PD or Sony about it, since if you are licensing cars, you usually have to do as the license allows, and car manufacturers aren't too happy about combining "crash", "damage" and "their car". It was pretty interesting, that M$ got the crash damage to their games in the first place, but it's expected to come a standard later on.

I think you maybe put a little too much weight to PD and the relations between different car manufacturers. What the games essentially are to the car manufacturers, is advertizing.

Forza is definitely a better simulation, no doubt about that. GT is something like playstation and PES, i mean that people will buy it because is a good game, but the main reason is the brand name...

Dude, I hate to burst your bubble but you've fallen prey to marketing. GT has never been made with the goal of simulating real car behaviour - there are several youtube videos you can check where the game's faulty physics are exposed. GT (and Forza) car behaviour models are made with the goal of being fun, accessible and provide a make-believe realism feeling to immerse you.

A real car simulator wouldn't sell half what those games sell because real racing simulators are difficult and frustrating. All those events you speak about are cross-marketing events set up by pr. The car maker gets exposure to the playstation audience, GT gets to mingle with the automotive industry, both brands score a win. Heck, Microsoft set up several of those as well back when Forza 2 was close to release. You don't need a "real driving simulator" for that to happen, just a competent PR team.

A twelve year old kid who's never touched a real car can load up GT or Forza and in a few months he'll be scoring top times. Real race drivers need years of practice to approach those times in real life. If you really think handling a two ton v12 is anything similar to what GT or Forza "simulate" I have a bridge to sell you.

If you want to play a much proper simulator, I'd suggest you check out ww.lfs.net. Gotta warn you, there are no marketing dollars spent on LFS to convince you that it's the real deal but it's closer than whatever you get to play on a console.

What GT has always gotten right while Forza still struggles with is in transmitting the passion of racing. Both Forza games are much drier than any of GT's iterations. Now that's a very important merit - but it has nothing to do with any supposed realism.

people who think forza is better than GT, you should go and ask someone who knows anything about cars games and tell him that! he will laugh at you, actually most may not even know what forza is.

xbox fanboys will say forza is better, PS fanboys will say GT is better. other gamers who dont spend all their time on internet game sites and game forums will automatically say GT is better because they dont know what forza is

It's Polyphony Digital.

Thank god! Now that you've said that, I'm relieved!

Everybody can say whatever he feels like over and over again without a decent argument.