Just admit it, you play with toys.

Please define 'toy' and 'game' without references to specific consoles. I find it hard to believe you're the only one "getting it" when the rest of us do not. And how is it not about Wii music? He said you could call it more a toy than a game, because it lacks goals. So a toy could be anything you play with, without it having any goal or reason, whereas a game has a goal, an end, or competition. Then you claimed Wii is a toy, which means it lacks any games. That's not true, it does have your typical games and then some (these toys). It doesn't make it a toy more than a game console, at least that's how I see it.

I'm really trying to make a sane discussion here, but you seem to be obsessed with convincing people Wii is not a game console, but a toy, unlike the other two. Well, that's the impression I got with your past wii/toy threads.

It's pretty obvious, that Nintendo is trying to expand the market with Wii music-type games. Look how much money they've made with this "expanded market", no one is arguing that. I disagree with your statement that Wii is just a toy. It's a game console as much as the others are (or the others are toys just as Wii is). I don't think Nintendo stopped making core games in favour of "casual" games. We had a new game from all the biggest (core) franchises and there's more to come.

And something you "hardcore" (aren't you?) types seem to fear: MS and Sony will follow Nintendo's path to this new "expanded" market. That's where the money is. And that's good for all of us too: more variety of games. Games for everyone.

 I am asking you what you think. Why avoid the question?

....gnizmo it was a pathetic attempt to get me to say yes because i effing owned a wii, i know what it is capable of.
This whole thread tho, has now become "do people think video games are toys"
so, do you? because everyone that disagrees with me seems to think that.

@teoulas:
thank you for actually having something to say. i agree and i think they are trying to get even more into this kind of gaming. To me, i think this is nintendo's future. but i believe that the market exists for the hardcore too, and there is an alienating factor involved that cannot exist that way.
ps2 was very casual but also hardcore. it was in the middle. the same goes for the ds, and the snes. all the consoles right now are leaning too far into the extremes be it casual or hardcore.
i just think it is more lucrative market to be in the middle, instead of catering to casual. In the wii's defense, it could just be that the games i played which i expected to be great, completely failed by making the game so simple i felt they were completely lacking in creativity which was what i bought the wii for.

but thank you for saying that this momentum by nintendo is obvious because everyone is trying to make me look crazy.

as for me, i'm halfway in between hardcore and casual, some of my faves are GoW and Katamari, as well as mario, and bubble bobble, and Civ4.
I am worried that games are going to be less worth my money in the future than they are now, but i guess that is why people read reviews like i should have.

Wii Music is a 'toy' because there is no objective, it's just purely for entertainment with no set goal to achieve. Games have an objective.

Video Game systems are toys because they have no set objective in and of themselves and serve no purpose than to provide an entertaining distractions whether that's in the form of games, movies and other video or audio entertainment like Wii Music.

 I am not concerned with this whole thread though. I am concerned with your contradictory statements. A TV is not a toy because it can bring you the news. A Wii is a toy despite the fact that it can bring you the news, and bring you far more news and important information than your typical TV due to the web browser built-in. You are intentionally or unintentionally trying to create a double standard where the Wii can't be considered anything but a toy. Stick to one solid definition or modify your statement to say the Wii is not a toy.

 And yes, in a sense I think they are toys. In the same sense I think computers, chairs, telephones, and everything else under the sun is a toy. I define objects based on use. You can play with anything, thus making it a toy.

You can't put videogame systems in two different sub-categories just as you see fit.

They're both toys.

They're both toys in the "videogame" part of being a toy.

Fair enough?

gnizmo i think the problem, honestly and without hurting anyones feelings is that most people in here have differing opinions on what is a toy.
so when i respond in one way to one person so that they would understand, it conflicted with someone elses understanding.
so then when i put it into an idea that the new guy could understand it conlicted again.
basically my whole point is that i think the wii is going to be moving more and more towards this "no point" type game like wii music, although while still maintaining core games.
i think they should be working on more innovative core games instead of focusing so much on casual games. there are too many new casual games, and not enough new core games, which by nature someone is going to disagree with what constitues a core game, so really by answering your question, i am opening myself up to other debates and now you understand this is never ending........
no i do not think anything is a toy.
i just think that the console itself is chasing casuals rather than core gamers. if this is incorrect please correct me, but it seems to be a very sound argument if you ask me.