madskillz,

IF PS3 20gb was a COMPLETE PS3 it would have sold better ...
It may be a complete PS3 in ur mind but for customers things seem different. It is why they dont bought this 3/4 PS3.

And right now, considering the not bad sales in Amazon.com, it seems that the PS3 60gb is considered as a COMPLETE PS3 which is sold for 500$.

U can think what u want, since the sales show u that u are wrong.

u saied : "They won the PS2/Xbox scrap because of GTA exclusivity. That single-handedly killed the Xbox ... "

lol, Xbox was killed because PS2 has already win, there was no fight (opposite to now)
and, I am maybe wrong, but GTA andreas was released on Xbox too ?

I'm disappointed with Sony this generation and don't see myself buying their system at all. They came in with the idea that Blu-Ray and Wireless Technology etc. Would justify the price and purchase of a Video Game system. They found out that without a solid library of Video Games that most people didn't see it their way then they finally do something that shows they may be coming to their senses(announce a price cut around the time that they are going to be getting really good games) Just to find out that that is not nescecarily the case. They plan to use a Harddrive and a game and take away the EE and basically relaunch the system at the price of $600.00. So we're back where we were before. Hmmm... I would not be surprised if by this time next year or sooner we'll be talking about how great it is to get PS3 at $450.00 - $400.00 just to find out a week or a month later that they will be making 120 GB model with a game and no Backward Capabilities at all for $600.00. Just dissapointing. At least by then they'll have some games that would justify the purchase(Hopefully)

The PS3 20gb was nixed within 6 months of launch. 6 months?! Think about this - had Sony kept with the 20gb version, the price would be $399 - directly competing with the premium 360. AND ... the 60gb would still be $499. I have had years of experience dealing with Sony and their products - the Walkman, the Discman ... and they smelled blood in the water and bailed.

Sales on Amazon are soaring? For how long? Yeah ... they'll soar until the 60gb B$3 runs out, and then ... back to the norm. Last time I checked vgchartz - right here on this site, the PS3 is STILL a distance third. The bump is temporary - some fools jump at a $50 price cut ... but it's a very attractive deal if you haven't been keeping up. 5 free Blu Ray movie - a $100 price cut - what's not to love? But to the informed consumer, the costs of hard drive space are way down, and it's pretty much the same as the 20gb version as far as costs. M$ is just laughing to the bank ...

As far as GTA ... it was a timed exclusive. That is what killed the Xbox. Why? If you had an Xbox, you had to wait YEARS to play GTA. YEARS. Several folks ended up buying a PS2 just to play it. Gamers will buy a console for exclusive content. Without GTA exclusivity, it would have been a completely different ballgame ...

@Relias - QFT ...

Sony is living off last-gen street cred. They have been shoveling crap so long, and really, really think they can win this battle. Sorry to say this, but ... no, sir. They have to pull a rabbit out of their butt to win this. The Wii is whipping them ... the 360 is steadily holding them off (until the 60gb B$3 sells out) and Sony is still clueless. Lack of exclusive content is what's killing the B$3, as well as lack of games. Who cares about 2008? Bring some games - sick ones - in 2007.

I am ROTFLMBO at folks - uninformed masses on Amazon.com - who will end up playing their 5 *free* Blu-Ray flicks into a coma because of a lack of good games. You can only play Motorstorm for some long, as well as Resistance ...

"""The PS3 20gb was nixed within 6 months of launch. 6 months?! Think about this - had Sony kept with the 20gb version, the price would be $399 - directly competing with the premium 360. AND ... the 60gb would still be $499."""

==> but the 20 gb didnt sell well in NA.
Sony would be happy to keep this model if it sell.
The fact to stop producing the 20gb version wasn't decided by Sony but by the NA customers themself.
The 20gb could have had a good life in EU but sadly we will never know

"""Sales on Amazon are soaring? For how long? Yeah ... they'll soar until the 60gb B$3 runs out, and then ... back to the norm. Last time I checked vgchartz - right here on this site, the PS3 is STILL a distance third. The bump is temporary - some fools jump at a $50 price cut ... but it's a very attractive deal if you haven't been keeping up. 5 free Blu Ray movie - a $100 price cut - what's not to love? But to the informed consumer, the costs of hard drive space are way down, and it's pretty much the same as the 20gb version as far as costs. M$ is just laughing to the bank ..."""

==> I think M$ are not laughing at all
Whatever, I saied "not bad sales" for PS3 to clearly show that I was waiting for VGC weekly numbers to see if price cut has an effect or not.
But u saied that "until the 60gb B$3 runs out, and then ... back to the norm"
But U know there is maybe 1M PS3 60gb still waiting to found their daddy, so I think that the "price drop" (or whatever u call it) will stay during some months ...and even after this Sony will have to make another price drop.

"""As far as GTA ... it was a timed exclusive. That is what killed the Xbox. Why? If you had an Xbox, you had to wait YEARS to play GTA. YEARS. Several folks ended up buying a PS2 just to play it. Gamers will buy a console for exclusive content. Without GTA exclusivity, it would have been a completely different ballgame ... """

==> NO, """several folks ended up buying a PS2""" is not really accurate
As PS2 was ALWAYS in front Xbox in term of sales, people didnt needed to buy any PS2 since they already have one.
Xbox needed true exclusivity to become more appealing and Halo/PGR alone was not sufficient to make the system sell a lot.

Apparently, you were one of the jokers duped into buying a PS3, huh?

The 20gb PS3 was on the market for just 6 months. The 60gb PS3 was readily available a month after launch. In the Southwest, I went to Best Buys, Wal-Marts, Targets to see just how available the PS3 was ... guess what? At every location, there was one or two of them available. The 360? It was late March before you could buy one ... or find one on the shelves. The Wii? ROTFLMBO ... they sell out still as soon as they hit the shelves. Sony wants items to be an instant hit. First, the $499 price tag scared a lot of folks off - they waited to see if it was gonna be worth their rent money. Next, when they saw the games were less than stellar, folks went with a Wii, if they could find one, or the 360. Shoot, for $299, they could game - without the extra niceties.

Name one company that axes a product within 6 months of launch. That makes absolutely NO SENSE.

On the B$3 sales - look at the charts - keep watching them - it's gonna take a lot more than free movies and a price cut to jumpstart sales. Ok ... after amazon sells the P$3s ... what about attach rates? Dismal. There aren't enough games to justify gambling on a $500 purchase. Do you know what $500 can buy? I don't wanna buy potential - I want to buy a video game and play games, not play Blu-Ray discs or find the cure to AIDs.

Even when the PS3 was released in Europe, sales shot through the roof ... but only temporarily. For the 360 to still be motoring, despite the PS3 surge, without a price cut and in light of the Wii is remarkable. If they did do a price cut, Sony will be PWN3D.

And folks buying the PS2 - it's true. Look at the numbers of folks who bought GTA ... over 30 million copies sold ... and you don't honestly think folks bought a PS2 to play it? How many folks are going to wait to play the game? I didn't - I bought a PS2 without hestitation when I found out it was on the PS2 for the time being. No one is gonna sit around waiting for a cool game all your peeps are talking about. It's murder ...

Lastly, Sony really, really needs to quit axing underperforming products within 6 months of launch. The race would really be a real contest if they were so far behind. Don't believe me ... look at the charts ... 

"axing a product within 6 months" was more about manufacturing costs than console sales. They did it because manufacturing two devices with different cases, motherboards, and parts is more expensive than it's worth. There's a reason most cars today come with some features standard. It's cheaper for them to have one line making one single device than two lines making two different devices.

Well,

Since PS3 is still here, it means that PS3 is supported by sony even 6 months after launch.
About the fact that 20gb was discontinued, that was not my idea, so I presume sony was losing too many money to produce it, so they stoped it.
I dont see problem about it. I m not one of the guys that wanted to buy a 20gb, and since only 10% PS3 sales were the 20gb model, I think Sony made a good decision that I could have made too if I was them.

I never stated that PS3 sales are suppose to really improve. It is why, as you, I m waiting for sales report from VGC.

LOL, about European sales, just LOL
"Xbox360 still be motoring is remarkable" lol
If we focus between the PS3 and Xbox360 that are competting for the same nich, Xbox360 is cheaper, possess plenty of good game, and just stolen a lot exclusivity. At the opposite, PS3 is more stable that Xbox360 that possess a 30% failure rate, but since microsoft give back ur money ...it is not as bad for Xbox360. And what about sales ? just last week :
20 000 Xbox360 Vs 24 000 PS3
and I dont even mention that EXCEPT UK, PS3 is over Xbox360 in all the others PAL country.
We both know that price cut will happen in EU, good games are coming for PS3
so yes, Microsoft will be PWN3D, believe me. Sony hype >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft hype (in EU, except UK, nobody know Xbox360, it is all about Wii and PS3)

yes GTA is a strong franchise, the strongest maybe for EU and NA,
but there were others franchises that were out helping the PS2 to be the first. Xbox needed more than GTA to be first.
After, of course, if u take all the PS2 and put on Xbox... but I suppose it is another story.
And about GTA4, since microsoft show nothing in their own conference about the exclusive content I expect us to have some surprise that will not make Xbox360 owners/defenders happy.
So strange, to possess a so strong weapon and to not use it .... Who saied that PS3 will have her own exclusive content directly released in 2007 ? (Whatever I may be wrong, I m more or less joking here).

I m looking at chartz, as u, and last week :
Japan:
Xbox360 2500 PS3 11000
NA:
Xbox360 34000 PS3 17000
EU :
Xbox360 20000 PS3 24000
For me, Xbox360, will, since now, never be able to serously catch PS3 anymore in EU and Japan.
Thx microsoft to have ANTICIPATED the next-gen allowing to get a free year with no concurrence and an amazing 33% failure rate never seen in the whole electronic story (my guess).
Why are u not complaining too about Microshit ?

It's true that the 20GB PS3 plays PS3 games just as well as the others do. So, it is a 'complete' PS3, in the same sense that a car with no radio or A/C, but normal acceleration, gas mileage, etc., is a 'complete' car.

In fact, my car DOES have no A/C and a radio on the fritz; it is still a 'complete' car, and I'll keep driving it, but I wouldn't buy it from someone else unless I was desperate.

The 360 is in serious need of a pricecut, but the problem is this.   More PS3's are being shifted in the Other Regions than 360's, why is this happening?  The PS3 is approx £400 in the UK, and the 360 is only £190 for the Core and £280 for the Premium.  The Elite is due out at the end of August for £330.  So the 360 has a significantly cheaper console range and they have a bigger and supposedly better software range....well why is the PS3 selling more in this region?

The same is happening in Japan as well.

In North America, it is a different case altogether.  The 360 is shifting double the number of units of the PS3.  But this gap of only 17k should reduce significantly with the latest PS3 price drop.

All in all.  I think MS is in trouble with the 360.  They are out $1.1b with the whole RROD problem and are expected to reduce costs to get back on track.  They have just broken the 10m units sold worldwide last month and the number of units sold is dwindling all the time.  There is ony 4k units between WW sales of the 360 and the PS3 at the moment, both coming in just over 50k WW each week.  Once the pricecut settles in NA and the new package in other areas, I reckon we will easily see PS3 sales being significantly more WW than 360.

So MS WILL have to make a pricecut sooner rather than later or, Sony will be eating into their chunk of the Europe and will be racing away in Japan.  So MS will only be left with NA to fight it out.