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Forums - Nintendo - 3 reasons for nintendo to be worried

Sky Render said:
I don't think you quite understand WHAT the Wii's sub-market is. LBP is about as much threat to the Wii as the Dizzy series was to the NES. LBP is the embodiment of the hardcore gamer fantasy of having full control over the game's design and interface, to the point that they're making their own game. But that's not what Average Joe wants. Average Joe (who outnumbers the hardcore about a million to one) prefers to just play the game, not make it.

 

LBP allows just that, after all their will be those that like to make things, so the creation part of the game will draw them in, others will simply enjoy playing the game, and LBP allow for both to exist with in the game.



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People, leave paul_warren alone....i mean, he has a degree in religion :O how can you possibly think he is wrong???



"Allows" is different than "does". The problem with theory is that it's a tricky platform that often disappears the moment you try to put it into action. Which is why many games sound so great on paper, but end up selling so poorly.

I actually remember a game about 8 or 9 years ago that got the kind of over-hyping that LBP does, for a lot of the same reasons. It was supposed to be the game that would launch the DreamCast into the stratosphere because it was so ahead of its time and let the player decide how the game went more than the game itself did. That game, Shenmue, ended up being a permanent money sink and did not even come close to making the DreamCast blast off into sales history.



Sky Render - Sanity is for the weak.

Paul_Warren said:

"Have you been right on anything in this field since the Wii launched?"

Most recently, I was right when on the very same night that GTA IV received its 10 from IGN when I said over there that Metal Gear Solid 4 was also going to receive a 10 from IGN. I was also right when I said that an 8.7 from IGN for Ninja Gaiden II indicated that the game was going to sell disappointingly, and that if MGS 4 did come out and receive a 10 review score as I predicted that it would, then the PS3 would beat the 360 for the most units sold during the summer '08 months. I also said this would continue until a game like Too Human came out with good review scores and that if Too Human or Tales of Vesperia either one received poor review scores then PS3 domination of the 360 had the potential to continue in America at least until Gears of War 2 is released. Right now, I am predicting disappointing review scores for Fable 2, so unless Halo Wars turns out to be the best rts ever released on console then I still believe I could be right in that prediction.  Of course the new 360 Arcade price will also generate improved sales (sp?) for the console.

Now I am predicting that if Little Big Planet and Resistance 2 both do well critically 9+ review scores for each and that if a game like Mirror's Edge also follows suit, the PS3 could very well be the console of Christmas '08 as I don't think that either Animal Crossing or Wii Music will do so well. Wii Music should receive less sales than Rock Band 2 and the next Guitar Hero to only be the third highest selling music game of the holiday season and in my opinion the jury is still out on Animal Crossing. Whichever of these three games Animal Crossing, Little Big Planet, or Banjo Kazooie  Nuts and Bolts gets the highest review score this Christmas season is going to greatly benefit the console that it is on.

Haha, what the hell is this?  Your sales predictions are based on IGN and other review scores?

This does not explain the success of Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, Carnival Games, etc.  Heck, the whole Wii console in general.  Oh, and let's not forget the 4th best selling HD game - Assassin's Creed, sold over 6.5mil copies, and got a 7.7/7.5 on IGN.

It sounds to me like you feel the "hardcore," or reviewers, actually have that big an impact on the industry, therefore the Wii must fail, otherwise it'll prove how powerless they (or you) really are in the face of this new audience.  Unfortunately for you, the Wii is here to stay.



Paul_Warren said:

"Have you been right on anything in this field since the Wii launched?"

Most recently, I was right when on the very same night that GTA IV received its 10 from IGN when I said over there that Metal Gear Solid 4 was also going to receive a 10 from IGN. I was also right when I said that an 8.7 from IGN for Ninja Gaiden II indicated that the game was going to sell disappointingly, and that if MGS 4 did come out and receive a 10 review score as I predicted that it would, then the PS3 would beat the 360 for the most units sold during the summer '08 months. I also said this would continue until a game like Too Human came out with good review scores and that if Too Human or Tales of Vesperia either one received poor review scores then PS3 domination of the 360 had the potential to continue in America at least until Gears of War 2 is released. Right now, I am predicting disappointing review scores for Fable 2, so unless Halo Wars turns out to be the best rts ever released on console then I still believe I could be right in that prediction.  Of course the new 360 Arcade price will also generate improved sales (sp?) for the console.

Now I am predicting that if Little Big Planet and Resistance 2 both do well critically 9+ review scores for each and that if a game like Mirror's Edge also follows suit, the PS3 could very well be the console of Christmas '08 as I don't think that either Animal Crossing or Wii Music will do so well. Wii Music should receive less sales than Rock Band 2 and the next Guitar Hero to only be the third highest selling music game of the holiday season and in my opinion the jury is still out on Animal Crossing. Whichever of these three games Animal Crossing, Little Big Planet, or Banjo Kazooie  Nuts and Bolts gets the highest review score this Christmas season is going to great;y benefit the console that it is on.

 

 

Review scores hardly equate to sales success, see:  Eternal Darkness, Carnival Games, or Lair.  Eternal Darkness is still one of the highest rated GC games and one of the most critically praised during the last generation, yet it's sales sucked.  Carnival Games and Lair both received lackluster, poor, or overly negative reviews and that didn't stop Carnival Games from breaking the million mark or Lair from still, somehow, finding it's way into the collections of over 300,000 gamers.

Animal Crossing will be a big seller for the Wii.  AC: Wild World was a very popular DS title.  Wii Music, I can give you in that it's got a lot of music-game themed competition that will no doubt drown out the little title.  Guitar Hero and Rock Band have reputations and huge followings, and unlike Wii Music, require some skill to be played.  That doesn't even factor in the several other music and rhythm titles on the horizon for all systems.  Samba De Amigo will likely slaughter Wii Music unless Wii Music comes packed with another controller or something like Wii Play did.

Anyone could have predicted GTAIV and MGS4 would garner a lot of praise and 10/10 ratings.  For one thing, it's become more and more obvious that the review system is broken, and for another, both games had a couple years of hype and lead-in backing them, as well as some of the most competent game developers and studios.  That's like predicting that the next Zelda game will "kick ass and be way popular."  No shit, Sherlock.

 

The price cut of the Xbox360 will see the most sales in the Pro edition.  The Arcade has never been the popular version of Xbox360 hardware since about the only people buying it are the ones foolishly thinking they won't need a harddrive soon after first using it--or the ones duped by crafty (or crooked?) salesmen not mentioning the fact that the only way to actually get some real enjoyment out of the X360 is to buy a harddrive for it later, which costs so much more that they might as well just get the Pro.  The Arcade won't cut into anyone's sales, least of all the Wii.  The new low-cost Xbox360 Pro and Elites, however, will likely cut into the PS3's sales (especially in North America, but hardly at all in Japan) with little problem.

 

Also, the Wii has quite a few higher-profile titles coming out later this year, and a plethora spread out over 2009.  A fact that you've routinely overlooked during your time with this thread.  Hardcore titles, no less--for all the hardcore gamers who either already own a Wii, or are looking for a bit more reason to get it.  Halfway through 2009, the Wii will start looking awfully attractive to a lot more hardcore gamers.  You keep saying that the Wii is all casual games and casual gamers (which is clearly trolling as no one can actually be that ignorant), and that there are no games coming out for it.  With 2009 looking to be a pretty strong year for the Wii, I find it hard to believe your theorizing that it'll be nearly totally dead by 2010.  Sure, bubbles burst--everyone knows that.  But the Wii's bubble is still in it's growing phase.  It spent the first two years appealling strongly to the Blue Ocean market, and next year, it'll start appealling much more to the hardcore gamer market, eventually to be split and appealling to both the way the DS does.  With news coming out that Nintendo is gearing it (and the DS) up for a release in India and continued consideration of the Chinese market, it will only continue to grow. 

 

I know my Wii is populated by 12 regular games, 15 Virtual Console games, and a Wii Ware title.  The only ones out of all of that I can honestly say are casually-minded are Wii Sports and Wii Play, and those were bought because the former came with the Wii and the latter gave me some quick-play options for gaming with my son while delivering up a Wiimote for "free."  The only thing right now that is keeping the Wii from being truly gamer-friendly is the lack of a storage medium.  Simply put, you aren't much of a gamer if you aren't the least bit interested in the massive offering of classic titles available in the Virtual Console.



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Sky Render said:
"Allows" is different than "does". The problem with theory is that it's a tricky platform that often disappears the moment you try to put it into action. Which is why many games sound so great on paper, but end up selling so poorly.

I actually remember a game about 8 or 9 years ago that got the kind of over-hyping that LBP does, for a lot of the same reasons. It was supposed to be the game that would launch the DreamCast into the stratosphere because it was so ahead of its time and let the player decide how the game went more than the game itself did. That game, Shenmue, ended up being a permanent money sink and did not even come close to making the DreamCast blast off into sales history.

 

hmmm I seee, so your comparing apples to oranges huh.

Look, what LBP is trying todo right now is exactly what people having been doing with mods on PC, except that moding has been  made much much easier and is presented with a youtube feel to make life easier for those that are a bit on the casual side, now as for you saying LBP will fail just because Shemnue did (because according to you they are so alike) is really silly, how about we let the market decide and see how things end up rather than compare apples to oranges.



"So we have to wait until Christmas 2010 to congradulate you for your <50M by March 2009 prediction?"

No those are two separate predicitions. I predict that the Wii will not reach 50,000,000 consoles sold by March 1 2009 as someone said was Nintendo's own sales predicition. It has been out almost 2 years and has just passed the 31 million mark. With no Zeldas or Marios coming out between now and March 1, 2009, I really don't see how the Wii is going to move 19 million more units in the next seven months and the Wii has been trending slightly down in recent weeks (eg. two weeks ago it beat the PS3's Others sales by 150% however last week that was down to just 70% more Wii's sold in Others).

And I predict that with much better games coming to the PS3 in the future that really demonstrate what the machine is capable of and a lower price going in 2009 (with at least one of the PS3 models being at the $299.99 price point) that the PS3 will pass the Wii by Christmas 2010. And if the PS3 hasn't passed the Wii in total sales by that point it will be selling worldwide comparably to the Wii much as the PSP does to the DS in Japan.

Now, I am not factoring price cuts into effect for the Wii into these predictions. One reason that the NES was able to stay ahead of its competition as someone pointed out but failed to mention was that the NES had several price cuts during its time. I believe there was a time in 1988 when you could walk into Kaybe Toys for example and pick up an NES for $50.00. I would buy a $150.00 Wii just to catch up with Zelda and Mario, but I have no reason to buy it at $250.00.  Also the NES had a lockdown on what system developers at the time could place their games on and that also worked greatly in the NES' favor. However with key developers and series appearing and continuing to appear on both the PS3 and 360 in this gen, Nintendo simply can't do things like that.



My most anticipated games:  Whatever Hideo Kojima is going to do next, Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, Gran Turismo 5, Alan Wake, Wii Sports Resort.  Cave Story Wiiware.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqqLMgbtrB8

all we can do is just wait and see what happens. i hope the wii gets more hardcore gamers, and i hope games like the Conduit, Madworld, and Disaster: Day of Crisis sell well.



I think you missed my underlying message by getting caught up in the differences instead of the similarities. My point is that the developers of Shenmue were convinced that the game would be a hit and so were the hardcore, and it clearly had all of the ingredients for success, but it fell far short of expectations due to not accounting for the interests of non-hardcore. Extreme customization is a hardcore-centric value, don't expect non-hardcore players to magically "see the light" and want it in any form. But fine, if you want to believe LBP is going to somehow cause 1 + 1 to equal 3, go ahead.



Sky Render - Sanity is for the weak.

"You keep saying that the Wii is all casual games and casual gamers (which is clearly trolling as no one can actually be that ignorant)"

I don't think I ever said that exactly.

 

 

"I know my Wii is populated by 12 regular games, 15 Virtual Console games, and a Wii Ware title.  The only ones out of all of that I can honestly say are casually-minded are Wii Sports and Wii Play, and those were bought because the former came with the Wii and the latter gave me some quick-play options for gaming with my son while delivering up a Wiimote for "free."  The only thing right now that is keeping the Wii from being truly gamer-friendly is the lack of a storage medium.  Simply put, you aren't much of a gamer if you aren't the least bit interested in the massive offering of classic titles available in the Virtual Console."

     You don't have Wii Fit?  Actually, I've had most of those VC games over the years, so I don't know why I would want to buy them again.



My most anticipated games:  Whatever Hideo Kojima is going to do next, Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, Gran Turismo 5, Alan Wake, Wii Sports Resort.  Cave Story Wiiware.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqqLMgbtrB8