There would have been millions of US Soldiers and Japanese civilians killed if the bomb wasn't dropped. They were arming women and children with wooden pikes to defend their homeland. If you can take one lesson from the Iraq War it's that occupation of a country is VERY difficult if the citizenry still believe they are fighting for a cause.
Kickin' Those Games Old School. - 201 Beaten Games And Counting
The Japanese were worse than the Germans in many ways, and the Japanese were going to fight to the death, that is why casualties would be so bad in an invasion of the japanese mainland
also, whoever said that Tokyo was barely bombed is wrong, I know that there was a giant air raid which was met by no resistance, and according to wikipedia half the city was destroyed
sieanr said:
LOLWAT? Hiroshima was a city of minor strategic importance, having only a handful of factories and a small number of troops stationed there. The bomb was dropped in the center of the city, where all of the civilian homes and business were while what factories and bases the city had lied on its outskirts. Part of the reason why Hiroshima was chosen was due to its terrain. The city lied in the valley and it was believed that this would channel the explosion, but this theory needed to be tested. Thus Hiroshima became something of an experiment to see how the bomb bast would be effected by land. The big motivation for dropping the bomb wasnt to end the war with Japan, but to intimidate the USSR. Tensions between the US and Soviet Union were tense throughout the war, but once Truman took office things began to sour. For various reasons President Truman was concerned with the US putting itself in a superior diplomatic position to the USSR, and he saw the bomb as one way to accomplish that. One other thing to keep in mind is that the Soviet Union was entering the war against Japan right after the bombs were dropped. Because of this there was a real priority placed on ending the war as soon as possibly to prevent the USSR from acquiring territory in Asia, such as Korea. Oddly enough the USSR entering the war happened to be just as much of a factor in Japanese surrender as the dropping of the Abomb, not just because the Japanese were terrified of the Soviets due to a previous war but also because they were afraid of the Soviets doing the same thing they did in Eastern Europe. Oh, and one last thing. The US firebombed Dresden in Germany. After we saw the civilian casualty figures and how destructive the bombing was we decided that we would never do the same to Germany. Yet we firebombed Japan on a weekly basis, often times causing far more civilian casualties then dresden. I don't feel like tackling the last thing you wrote, but its mostly wrong. |
1. Get a new avatar.
2. Learn what you are talking about.
3. We weren't deliberately killing civilians.
4. The last thing I wrote is true. Back up your statement.
Once probably, twice no.
The first bomb was all that was really needed.
Even japan is probably better off then it would of been had it been split into North and South Japan like Germany was.
Reminds me of Ring of Red actually. I think that was the exact premise of that game... no nukes instead the country was split in half... and a big vietnam/korea type war took place.
Of course they added giant mechs.
@ kasz, they asked for a Japanese surrender after the first bomb, and then dropping the second gave the impression that they had loads to drop, making the Japanese think they could go on for a while dropping them
Munkeh111
Seconded. The Japanese could have just thought we were bluffing by dropping only one bomb.
| mrstickball said: Likel Munkeh and Snes stated, I would have, and do, support the nuking of Japan in WW2. It's hard to agree with such a horrible thing, but the alternatives of invading Japan would of been far worse than nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Had we invaded, the war would of lasted 3-4 more years, and Japan would almost certainly be a useless country, and not the phoenix that it has been post-war. |
agreed. Ironically, dropping the bombs probably saved millions of Japanese lives.
Not trying to be a fanboy. Of course, it's hard when you own the best console eve... dang it
1) We didn't get to vote on it the first time.
and
2) Hell no. It wasn't necessary at all.
I'd gladly risk the lives of "x amount of troops" over targeting "y amount of civilians and troops", even if I somehow had magical proof that X was bigger than Y. Civilians were not expendable. Targeting them should be a war crime, or a crime against humanity.
If we can have the moral high ground using the nuke, then why can't Al-Qaeda get the moral high ground in 9/11? We've already established that we're comfortable with targeting hundreds of thousands of civilians. We'd already killed nearly 200,000 (all civilians) in Tokyo with regular bombs. In Hiroshima we took out between 90,000 and 140,000 by the end of the year. We had a general saying we didn't need to use the nuke because he personally "had already bombed Japan back into the stone age." They were done for. It was just a fucking fatality move for style points.
We fucked up. We made a mistake.
Japan was out of food and ammo. They were sending Japanese troops out with just a couple bullets, and sometimes none, telling them "you can just kill a stupid American and steal his gun." These soldiers were starving. And the kamikazes were forced into it. Nobody wanted to die. We could've just sieged them and starved them and been done with it.
The only reason we dropped the bombs was because we were mad that the USSR met us halfway through Germany. We wanted to show off our new technology to scare the USSR and the rest of the world, flexing our power, and showing that we took out Japan without the Soviets' help.
And we'd narrowed it down to 12 or so cities to bomb, and we bombed the rest of the country. But not those 12. We wanted those cities to be really nice, so we can get some good before and after pictures. We decided the time and date, but not the city. Then that morning, we picked Hiroshima, because there wasn't a cloud in the sky, so we'd have nice weather for our photographs. We finally donated those photographs to Japan a couple decades later, and they're in the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum. They're insane.
Also, the Japanese got an assload of documentary film footage from the days immediately after the bomb, and the American occupation ordered it destroyed and wouldn't let anybody research the effects. We realized how evil and horrible it was, and we were ashamed of it, and tried to cover it up. But somebody hid some of the footage, and it finally resurfaced in the 90's. It's pretty fucked up.
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