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Forums - Gaming Discussion - which fighting game takes the most skill?

Words Of Wisdom on 23 July 2008
Riot Of The Blood said:
How is no combos a good thing? That makes it so defence and camping is the only option. Due to the lack of combos, nothing can be gained by approaching someone. And with the broken defensive options, you'll only get destroyed if you try. The only way to win consistently is camping. Brawl's engine is just broken in that way.

The skill in this game is at a minimum; tech skill flat out doesn't exist. You trade hits and that's it. That's the best you can hope for. Brawl is a shallow, noob-friendly game where skill is at a minimum. A beginer player could even take a stock or two away from a skilled player. That should not be happening. This is the only fighting where that shit does happen. I have no problem destroying people in other fighting games, but it's impossible in this game.

Look at a combo as a single move that deals X damage (a good bit more than most other moves).

When your opponent makes a mistake, you combo them right?  You deal X damage.

In translation, when your opponent makes a mistake you, you deal X damage to them.

The only difference in SSB is that moves don't deal tons of "damage" in the same manner technical fighters do so you cannot simply punish the opponent with "damage."  You need other techniques like edge guarding, short hopping, and more to hurt the opponents.  In a match a while back, I killed Luin's Lucas in two hits.  TWO hits.

I like the fact that SSBB matches are more than "Block.  Block.  Opening!  COMBO! COMBO! Win."  ^_^



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Valdens on 23 July 2008

How can you guys say that Brawl takes more skill than Melee XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIm00tNHZlg

Watch that video and tell me that again with a straight face



Brawl FC: 0473 - 7465 - 0612

thekitchensink on 23 July 2008
Words Of Wisdom said:
Riot Of The Blood said:
How is no combos a good thing? That makes it so defence and camping is the only option. Due to the lack of combos, nothing can be gained by approaching someone. And with the broken defensive options, you'll only get destroyed if you try. The only way to win consistently is camping. Brawl's engine is just broken in that way.

The skill in this game is at a minimum; tech skill flat out doesn't exist. You trade hits and that's it. That's the best you can hope for. Brawl is a shallow, noob-friendly game where skill is at a minimum. A beginer player could even take a stock or two away from a skilled player. That should not be happening. This is the only fighting where that shit does happen. I have no problem destroying people in other fighting games, but it's impossible in this game.

Look at a combo as a single move that deals X damage (a good bit more than most other moves).

When your opponent makes a mistake, you combo them right? You deal X damage.

In translation, when your opponent makes a mistake you, you deal X damage to them.

The only difference in SSB is that moves don't deal tons of "damage" in the same manner technical fighters do so you cannot simply punish the opponent with "damage." You need other techniques like edge guarding, short hopping, and more to hurt the opponents. In a match a while back, I killed Luin's Lucas in two hits. TWO hits.

I like the fact that SSBB matches are more than "Block. Block. Opening! COMBO! COMBO! Win." ^_^

 


Goddamn it I wish my wireless was working so I could finally face you



Could I trouble you for some maple syrup to go with the plate of roffles you just served up?

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Grey Acumen on 23 July 2008
thekitchensink said:
Riot Of The Blood said:
How is no combos a good thing? That makes it so defence and camping is the only option. Due to the lack of combos, nothing can be gained by approaching someone. And with the broken defensive options, you'll only get destroyed if you try. The only way to win consistently is camping. Brawl's engine is just broken in that way.

The skill in this game is at a minimum; tech skill flat out doesn't exist. You trade hits and that's it. That's the best you can hope for. Brawl is a shallow, noob-friendly game where skill is at a minimum. A beginer player could even take a stock or two away from a skilled player. That should not be happening. This is the only fighting where that shit does happen. I have no problem destroying people in other fighting games, but it's impossible in this game.

 

 

Basically what I said before--you can memorize button combos in other games, but that hardly equates to skill.

With regard to Brawl requiring 'no skill', that's just incorrect. Lets use your example of trying to approach someone who won't move. Let's say our camper is Ike, and our 'camped' is Mario. Mario clearly can't just run up and attack, as he'd get side-smashed into oblivion. Here are just some of his options:

-Make like he's running in to attack, but stop just in front of the side-smash, giving him an opportunity to strike while Ike recovers.

-Roll behind Ike or jump over him and force Ike to react (move) quickly or risk getting smashed himself.

-If Ike is on a platform, get him from underneath with an Up-B Smash attack.

-Hit him with a fireball, which will either flinch him momentarily, leaving him open, or force him to move.

-Grab a beam sword, bat, or other item and shoot or throw it at him.

-When Ike attempts a smash attack, use Mario's cape to turn him around, leaving him vulnerable.

 

There--off the top of my head, I just listed SIX things you could do in that situation. If I weren't at work I'd do more. Failure?

*Claps* Sorry riot, he summed up the main flaw in your argument really well.

On top of that, there's also the basic matter of the direction of teh flow of battle. in most other fighting games, all you basically have is a tug of war where one person attacks towards the left, and the other person attacks from the right. You then have attacks and blocks, and then you have combos so that you can do a lot of attacks really fast and make it harder to block.

Smash Bros has attacks, block, grabs that can't be blocked, dodging that can escape from blocks, but dodging only has a limited point at which you are invulnerable to damage, after which you become vulnerable to further attacks. On top of this, there are platforms that bring and completely new direction to the fight, that of vertical attacks, as well as bringing the use of terrain into play. There are about 5 completely distinct types of strategy (skill) that you simply do not see in other fighting games.

 



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Words Of Wisdom on 23 July 2008
thekitchensink said:
Words Of Wisdom said:

Look at a combo as a single move that deals X damage (a good bit more than most other moves).

When your opponent makes a mistake, you combo them right? You deal X damage.

In translation, when your opponent makes a mistake you, you deal X damage to them.

The only difference in SSB is that moves don't deal tons of "damage" in the same manner technical fighters do so you cannot simply punish the opponent with "damage." You need other techniques like edge guarding, short hopping, and more to hurt the opponents. In a match a while back, I killed Luin's Lucas in two hits. TWO hits.

I like the fact that SSBB matches are more than "Block. Block. Opening! COMBO! COMBO! Win." ^_^

Goddamn it I wish my wireless was working so I could finally face you

I think I added you to my friend's list as I have "Sink" on there.  ^_^

 



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NFGBlinkAC on 23 July 2008

Tekken and Soul Calibur by far

Tekken involves coming up with ur own offense, usually best ones are mixing up every characters movies. And juggles and oki's are the biggest part of Tekken because they're the only guaranteed hits in the game. Everything else can be blocked.

Soul Calibur is constant offense and defense, finding the opponents weakness. Mixing up character combos is the key to winning a match. Button mashin in either of these games are useless.



thekitchensink on 23 July 2008
Words Of Wisdom said:
thekitchensink said:
Words Of Wisdom said:

Look at a combo as a single move that deals X damage (a good bit more than most other moves).

When your opponent makes a mistake, you combo them right? You deal X damage.

In translation, when your opponent makes a mistake you, you deal X damage to them.

The only difference in SSB is that moves don't deal tons of "damage" in the same manner technical fighters do so you cannot simply punish the opponent with "damage." You need other techniques like edge guarding, short hopping, and more to hurt the opponents. In a match a while back, I killed Luin's Lucas in two hits. TWO hits.

I like the fact that SSBB matches are more than "Block. Block. Opening! COMBO! COMBO! Win." ^_^

Goddamn it I wish my wireless was working so I could finally face you

I think I added you to my friend's list as I have "Sink" on there. ^_^

 

 

I'm gonna try and get it working tonight--I'm sick of farming comps...



Could I trouble you for some maple syrup to go with the plate of roffles you just served up?

Tag, courtesy of fkusumot: "Why do most of the PS3 fanboys have avatars that looks totally pissed?"
"Ok, girl's trapped in the elevator, and the power's off.  I swear, if a zombie comes around the next corner..."
Riot Of The Blood on 23 July 2008

Why are we talking about low-tier garbage such as Ike and Mario? On top of that, you mention items as an approach... No one plays with items and no one cares what you can do with items.

If you want to talk anout approaching, at least know what you're talking about. What GOOD Ike is going to spam their fsmash like you're suggesting? Mario doesn't have an approach against Ike. Ike will out range and out prioritize anything Mario throws at him. Ike's Fsmash is highly punishable. A good Ike will just use his jab and aerials, which can shut down any approach MArio has. Mario would need to use his Fire Balls and force Ike to approach him, and then punish him from there. Furthermore, Mario has no moves that are safe against someone shielding. Mario has no safe approach.

He's reduced to camping with Fire Balls, and the match is just trading hits. That's lame, IMO.

No combos=fail. It breaks the entire game and turns into a camp fest.



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Valdens on 23 July 2008

Mario's utilt, dsmash, upair, dair, nair and usmash are good for stringing combos
Mario can dthrow to up air chase
Mario can use his cape as an opening
His dair is good for poking shields and approaching ue to it's multihit properties
Spacing his bairs works as an approach
Shorthop nair is a good albeit predictable approach as well
and he has good KO power in the form of his fsmash, usmash and FLUDD to recovering opponents.

If you're going to flame low tier characters you don't even play at least get their info right, Riot ;)



Brawl FC: 0473 - 7465 - 0612

thekitchensink on 23 July 2008
Riot Of The Blood said:
Why are we talking about low-tier garbage such as Ike and Mario? On top of that, you mention items as an approach... No one plays with items and no one cares what you can do with items.

If you want to talk anout approaching, at least know what you're talking about. What GOOD Ike is going to spam their fsmash like you're suggesting? Mario doesn't have an approach against Ike. Ike will out range and out prioritize anything Mario throws at him. Ike's Fsmash is highly punishable. A good Ike will just use his jab and aerials, which can shut down any approach MArio has. Mario would need to use his Fire Balls and force Ike to approach him, and then punish him from there. Furthermore, Mario has no moves that are safe against someone shielding. Mario has no safe approach.

He's reduced to camping with Fire Balls, and the match is just trading hits. That's lame, IMO.

No combos=fail. It breaks the entire game and turns into a camp fest.

 

1. I do know what I'm talking about--I Brawl for at least a good hour every day.

2. I didn't say Ike would spam anything--you used that word, and of course that would be easily counterable.

3. Lots of people play with items, but it really doesn't matter as that was only one bullet point.

4. I could come up with a much bigger list of things he could do, but I don't have time right now.

5. Ike is actually HIGH-tier. Here's a match between him and 'mid-tier' Link

 

Tell me there's no skill in that match.



Could I trouble you for some maple syrup to go with the plate of roffles you just served up?

Tag, courtesy of fkusumot: "Why do most of the PS3 fanboys have avatars that looks totally pissed?"
"Ok, girl's trapped in the elevator, and the power's off.  I swear, if a zombie comes around the next corner..."