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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo is worth more than Sony!

FishyJoe on 27 June 2007
vizunary said:

The forbes numbers I found were for both N and Sony 2006 fiscal year, which both are from April 2006 to March 2007. I am looking at some different sites, but I'm not gonna buy more recent reports just to discuss them here.


You are flat out wrong. The data you presented are clearly from the 4/1/05-3/31/06 time frame. You don't need to buy anything, financial reports are downloadable from each company.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2007/070426e.pdf

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/06q4_sony.pdf

 



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Lingyis on 27 June 2007
vizunary said:
 

Really, the numbers I used WERE for the 2006 FISCAL year, which ended in march 2007, but you're right that is SO long ago they shouldn't even be considered valid any longer. I didn't realize that you travelled to 2008 and brought the 2007 numbers back with you. Post any of this data you have with a source if you don't mind.

@Lingyis, sorry I can't find the data I'm looking for. I'm at work and that was all I can find at the moment, I know I didn't prove my point, just showing different figures that I had at my disposal.

Forbes - Global top 2000 list its current at 3/29/2007(if this isn't good enough then to hell with it), and it includes market value, which is what some like to use, and it's got assets, which is what I was looking for, it'll take me longer to find liabilities, then I can figure assets - liabilities = NET worth<-- that's what I was getting...

Rank

CompanyCountrySales ($bil)Profits ($bil)Assets ($bil)Market Vaue ($bil)
164 SonyJapan 63.62 1.05 88.75 52.14
695 NintendoJapan 4.33 0.84 9.79 34.00

 

EDIT: Do you know where to look for total company liabilities, I have some software at work that I can pull these type of reports for customers for a fee.... maybe I should talk someone into getting full reports on Nintendo and Sony, then I can view them too ;) .... I don't think it'd be a good idea to pull them for myself, they'd probably frown upon it, heh.


don't worry about it.  i mean, i'm gonna be looking at market cap anyway, since it is the simplest and likely the least controversial of all measures (haha).  i'm sure net worth = assets - libabilities for Sony would still be like 5 times greater than nintendo.  

i'll look these up for completeness' sake.  plus put up some other numbers because... they're just so damn interesting. 



the Wii is an epidemic.

vizunary on 27 June 2007
FishyJoe said:

I get my information directly from the source, the financial reports from the company themselves. You can read the data yourself. The data you presented is clearly from 2006 not 2007. 

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2007/070426e.pdf

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/06q4_sony.pdf

The facts are all there and undeniable.  

 

The undeniable fact is that your definition of worth is different than mine.



Lingyis on 28 June 2007

from ninty's statment:

Nintendo's net asset (ie. net worth): 1102018 million yen (3-31-07)

from google finance (i'm too lazy to look up from sony's statement)

Sony's total asset (3-31-07): 11716362 million yen
Sony's total libabilities : 8345658 million yen
Net worth: 3370704 million yen

so almost exactly 3:1. anyway, in US$: (=123 yen)

nintendo: 8.96 bln US
sony: 27.4 bln US

for comparison, for kicks:

exxon-mobil: 114.11 bln (market cap: ~$470 bln)
pfizer: 72.488 bln ( ~$180 bln)
walmart: 59.911 bln ( ~ $200 bln)
goldman: 35.786 bln (~ $90 bln)
microsoft: 34.973 bln ( ~ $270 bln)
apple: 12.261 bln ( ~$100bln)
boeing: 5.611 bln ( ~$75 bln)
dell: 4.129 bln (~$64 bln)
Ford: -3.71 bln (~$17 bln)
GM: -4.347 bln (~$22bln)

as long as your net worth is positive, you're doing fine.







the Wii is an epidemic.

FishyJoe on 28 June 2007

The problem with only listing physical assets and liabilities is that it fails to account for things like management, intellectual property, human resources, etc. Is it even possible to assign a value to Mario or Pokemon?



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Lingyis on 28 June 2007
FishyJoe said:
The problem with only listing physical assets and liabilities is that it fails to account for things like management, intellectual property, human resources, etc. Is it even possible to assign a value to Mario or Pokemon?

 exactly.   also, things like cash is included in it... so, the day microsoft issued $20 bln in dividends, it's net worth went down $20 bln that day.  so it also don't make much sense.

when people talk of "value of a company" it usually refers to the market cap.  i particularly like it because it's the value given to the company by the free market--i.e. everybody's guess of what the company is worth is included in there so you can't really argue that "it's undervalued" or "overvalued".



the Wii is an epidemic.

Roondar on 28 June 2007

The only problem with market cap as 'value of a company' is when silly things happen on the market like a company gaining 300% of it's value in under a month and then promptly losing all of that a month or so later.

Personally I don't buy it. Market Cap is just what 'the fools want to give for it' (to paraphrase a Dutch proverb) and is way to fickle for an actual display of the value of a company in monetary terms.

I'll grant you you'd need that much money to buy 100% of the company from the investors (more or less anyway) but please realize that the market cap is not even money or assets in the hands of the company itself, nor are low/high shares particularly required for a company to operate. (only time it really becomes relevant is when they give out new shares which usually does not happen all that often)



Ackmed Tepish on 28 June 2007

The ideas of people unwilling to believe their hero Sony has fallen are very problematic on this forum. If a link is provided and facts too, why is there need for discussion further more?



End of 2007 Predictions:

Wii =18m

360=14m

PS3=7m

 

DS=64m

PSP=30m

StarcraftManiac on 28 June 2007
vizunary said:
FishyJoe said:

Way to go financial genius, you are looking at financial data from 2006. 2007 numbers have been out for months. Nintendo is in another world financially in 2007. Sales grew 89.8% from 2006 to 2007. Net income grew 77.2%.

You want to judge a company on your basis? Ok then, how about GM? GM has over $207 billion in revenue for 2007. GM has over $186 billion in assets. It makes Sony look like a pipsqueak. Do you want to own GM because of it's revenue and assets??? Be my guest.


Really, the numbers I used  WERE for the 2006 FISCAL year, which ended in march 2007, but you're right that is SO long ago they shouldn't even be considered valid any longer. I didn't realize that you travelled to 2008 and brought the 2007 numbers back with you. Post any of this data you have with a source if you don't mind.

@Lingyis, sorry I can't find the data I'm looking for. I'm at work and that was all I can find at the moment, I know I didn't prove my point, just showing different figures that I had at my disposal.

Forbes - Global top 2000 list its current at 3/29/2007(if this isn't good enough then to hell with it), and it includes market value, which is what some like to use, and it's got assets, which is what I was looking for, it'll take me longer to find liabilities, then I can figure assets - liabilities = NET worth<-- that's what I was getting...

Rank

CompanyCountrySales ($bil)Profits ($bil)Assets ($bil)Market Vaue ($bil)
164 SonyJapan 63.62 1.05 88.75 52.14
695 NintendoJapan 4.33 0.84 9.79 34.00

 

EDIT: Do you know where to look for total company liabilities, I have some software at work that I can pull these type of reports for customers for a fee.... maybe I should talk someone into getting full reports on Nintendo and Sony, then I can view them too ;)  .... I don't think it'd be a good idea to pull them for myself, they'd probably frown upon it, heh.

 

LOL!!! Fiscal 06 ended March 06 genius! Not March 07...

That's why u got ur numbers wrong!... Nintendo is in another world now!... They are *ON FIRE...!

Fiscal 07 report said they had like 89.9% profit or something! (And that report came out March 07)...

So for Vizunary... This is fiscal 08 we're living in (for Nintendo) Ending March 08.



THE NETHERLANDS

Ackmed Tepish on 29 June 2007

No comeback from Vizunary?



End of 2007 Predictions:

Wii =18m

360=14m

PS3=7m

 

DS=64m

PSP=30m